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Modulus-686: 380W (4Ω); 220W (8Ω) Balanced Composite Power Amp with extremely low THD

@tomchr Yup - it’s surprising the status isn’t out for delivery given it arrived in Raleigh Weds night. The status makes me also think it might get pushed.

As an aside, I ordered a product from an NC dealer last Friday (via their website), which was listed as “In Stock.” Silly me - I thought in stock meant in the dealer’s stock, not the manufacturer’s. Turned out it was drop shipped from China (Matrix Audio) - it arrived a couple of days ago on Wednesday!
The 686 has landed! It’s a little cold, so just letting it come to room temperature. Let the games begin!

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They put a CE Label on it. If it causes any damage, the owner/user is responsible to demonstrate the liability of the manufacturer. That's what's important about adding a CE mark, not the actual tests that may have been done to look into CE conformity.
Which is all great on paper, still doesn't mean much in reality.

The main difference between EU laws and regulations and US, is that in the EU the responsibility lays with the manufacturers.
While in the US you basically MUST comply.

That's if you wanna play by the book.

For a analog device without switching parts (above 9kHz), I really wouldn't bother. Just follow standard safety rules, proper clearance and creepage and you're fine.
If you have enough sales that are non direct anymore (eg sold by third party webshops), make sure you document all of this very well.
Again, this is when you wanna play a little less by the book.

For anything that is switching, that's a different story, since you really have a big problem when the FCC finds you.

That's not a thing with CE btw (aka EU).
For this reason, it's much easier to develop and sell products in the EU.
Which, btw, was a deliberate choice made in the EU regulations, to prioritize development over strict rules.

In reality none of this is black and white.
I have worked for many companies, advised many companies and seen many companies who comply to a more or less degree to regulations. Some selling for well over 10k units a year.

In fact, I'm not gonna name and blame any names, but I have seen some very well known high power amplifier brands that don't comply since their psu is well over the 70W, but don't use PFC.
Yet they have a CE sticker on their devices.

That on itself hasn't anything to do with safety, but more with a fair field of competition.

This is also where the discussion with Koifarm went hairy.
I don't think he is wrong, but playing 100% by the official books is just not always practical.
In fact, many well known companies don't, as I mentioned before.

The chicken egg question remains how far you wanna go with that and how you wanna interpret these things?
If you wanna do it the absolute right way, wanna play 100% by the book and think that rules and regulations have to be followed with an iron fist, $5-6k isn't gonna cut it.
Make that more like $20-30k.

I personally would find that nuts for a small hobby project or even a small company with these low quantities.
If you're a well established company, selling over 20k (or so) units a year to all kinds of customers you have no or little clue about. Totally different story.

In the end it all has to do with reliability.
Or in other words, IF something goes wrong, who is responsible and why.
But most importantly, what are the challenges and risk factors.
So an assessment of worst case damages and/or problems.

For a company I currently work for they have a guy working on this full-time and has been doing that work for like 15-20 years.
That goes to show how very complicated this is, but also how not black and white this is.

What I just said would also just be basically his summary as well.
In addition to my previous and what was maybe not totally clear.

It's about who is legally responsible for any damages or problems.

So for a hobby or diy project, as long as you state that you made the project as safe as possible to your knowledge, experience and expertise, but that the buyer takes full responsibility when buying, is fully aware etc etc, that would be legally totally sound and fine.

As long as the buyer is aware that it's not tested for safety regulations etc, that is legally 100% legit.

That's also one of the reasons why DIY projects as well as development boards are being tolerated.
Since they are not end-consumer products.
When you buy such boards or devices from known big brands or manufactures, it also always comes with a huge disclaimer stating this for the same reasons.
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Please educate yourself and/or hire those that can help you in your specific situation.
That's quite literally what we are doing here?

But anyway, anyone who likes to know a bit more, please contact me or so.
I thought it would be actually educational for everyone, wanted to move from a single DIY project to something more serious.

Apparently that is bad thing to share?
It's about who is legally responsible for any damages or problems.
Right. Liability. Not reliability. Reliability deals with how well the product performs over time.

That's quite literally what we are doing here?
Not necessarily. Even among those in the know there's significant confusion. This is not the place to sort out that confusion. This is a vendor thread about the Neurochrome Modulus-686 power amp.

If you would like to start a separate thread about the rules, regulations, markings, testing as they apply to DIY products go right ahead. I'm happy to join you there as my time allows.

Meanwhile, I will continue to make every effort to ensure that my products are safe and that they play well with others. That's more than most DIY vendors out there seem to do.

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If you truly believe that I'm doing something criminal here, you should call the police. The non-emergency number for the Calgary Police Service is (+1) 403-266-1234. I'll be home all day...

Best I can figure I can certainly sell fully built amps in the US and that's all that's happened so far. And you know what? I made every effort to ensure that it was safe and that it would play well with others. Just as I do for all my products.

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...and the question is if it's legally ok to sell a fully-built unit without any CE (or equivalent) markings. There may be an issue with doing this, see here.
The question would be the other way around.
Selling a product WITH a CE marking that doesn't comply to CE regulations wouldn't be legal.

So what @tomchr is doing, is the correct way, no marking at all means, not compliant to any standards.
Aka, it comes as is, and he's not liable for anything, SINCE it's not compliant.
As long as he makes sure that people are aware of that, that's 100% fine.

Btw, I am most definitely of the opinion that if a product is sound or not, should be in the vendors topic.
That's what the product is all about.
I understand that it's not as sexy as technical discussions, but it's part of selling products.
If you like it or not.

It doesn't matter if that product is from China, Canada, Zimbabwe or Germany.
Btw, I am most definitely of the opinion that if a product is sound or not, should be in the vendors topic.
That's what the product is all about.
Then I suggest you open similar conversations with Nelson Pass, XRK, Tubelab, Aspen/AKSA, Twisted Pear, et al. in their vendor threads and forums. Is there a particular reason you're choosing to single me out?

As I've said over and over and over and over and over again ad nauseam: I am making every effort to ensure that my products are safe and that they play well with others.

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