without the cap of course but with the resistor keepedin ... very transparent, bigger low end (boomy) but the voices have a peak (100 to something 500 to 1000 hz ?)
. But the strings acoustical instruments are good from cello to acoustical guitar ! Maybe with a 2 way with a little 6" paper cone ? My second pcb is far better, but fun experience with this pcb 1, I heared a resonance in a tooth from Mc Cartney in Cahos & Creation... so I guess it's transparent... sort of loudness with the deep more in the mid-treb than in the medium like with classic loudness !
. But the strings acoustical instruments are good from cello to acoustical guitar ! Maybe with a 2 way with a little 6" paper cone ? My second pcb is far better, but fun experience with this pcb 1, I heared a resonance in a tooth from Mc Cartney in Cahos & Creation... so I guess it's transparent... sort of loudness with the deep more in the mid-treb than in the medium like with classic loudness !
Pedja Rogic writted to me than the TDA1541 is of course in the complete kit for the people who haven't one
..... or for friend or family who are not fanatic diyers like us with several chip already (I have 5 myself). look at the number, the chip produced around 2000 are the best near to be equal to S1 grad (the end of the number is 00)...
So Audial page have been updated i think !
..... or for friend or family who are not fanatic diyers like us with several chip already (I have 5 myself). look at the number, the chip produced around 2000 are the best near to be equal to S1 grad (the end of the number is 00)...
So Audial page have been updated i think !
🙁 Oups... sorry for the posts above, an open multi windows mistake with two different thread !
Well my personal thinking is WIma MKS2 is not very good with all the C22 I tried but stay a good choice in the sens it is lighty but not brighty (just a liitle shy harchness in the high due to my treble driver I surmise). But stay too tight with bad extinction of mid-bass in my system and a bad tonal balance.
I'm difficult. Because it adds a nice emphasis in the mid and bass. In my system a simple standard Black Gate is nicer and not just a little different ! So I think it's not about your ears and your matched ears between you guys but more about each system. Or maybe your old fletcher curve of your ears... Hahaha ! (I joke with all due of respect... I do my french here like JP don't like hahaha ! 😉 😀)
Yes JP maid a good work with the BOM as I already writed than doing choices from nothing is a long and hard task and it avoids the worst choices of caps and values. Kudo for that. I stay on my thought about the wima in my system but of course I will try the 2 mm pitch.
I hope also gary, you could be try what I writed in the PDF : nothing too loose than a little nice time and few bucks : but it was also without the JG buffer and with the genuine PS you don't use anymore. I assume some caps are less touched than others with you in relation to my work! But I will give C5/C19 a chance !
QUestion to you both with JP : better match at C35/C32 with bot C31&C34 populated ! BOM was not clear for me because my bad english about C31/C34 !
thanks
Well my personal thinking is WIma MKS2 is not very good with all the C22 I tried but stay a good choice in the sens it is lighty but not brighty (just a liitle shy harchness in the high due to my treble driver I surmise). But stay too tight with bad extinction of mid-bass in my system and a bad tonal balance.
I'm difficult. Because it adds a nice emphasis in the mid and bass. In my system a simple standard Black Gate is nicer and not just a little different ! So I think it's not about your ears and your matched ears between you guys but more about each system. Or maybe your old fletcher curve of your ears... Hahaha ! (I joke with all due of respect... I do my french here like JP don't like hahaha ! 😉 😀)
Yes JP maid a good work with the BOM as I already writed than doing choices from nothing is a long and hard task and it avoids the worst choices of caps and values. Kudo for that. I stay on my thought about the wima in my system but of course I will try the 2 mm pitch.
I hope also gary, you could be try what I writed in the PDF : nothing too loose than a little nice time and few bucks : but it was also without the JG buffer and with the genuine PS you don't use anymore. I assume some caps are less touched than others with you in relation to my work! But I will give C5/C19 a chance !
QUestion to you both with JP : better match at C35/C32 with bot C31&C34 populated ! BOM was not clear for me because my bad english about C31/C34 !
thanks
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Yes - both C31 and C34 should be populated with 1uf X7R capacitors. C34 is most important since it's closest to the ES9023 pins.
---Gary
Thanks my tests were maid only with a total of 2 uF : 1uf at C34 & 1uf at C35 or C32 or C31.
in the beginning I had C31 with the BOM and 1210 case but believed it was better without it. BTW it allows me to understand the character of each swap at C35/C32.... alone (i.e. : just with C34 !)
If you listen just C34 alone : have you a softer background + a sort of harchness in the mid-highs and tighty trebles... but some fatiguing listening after 2 minutes ?
try first the LE serie of my C22 short list. It will help me to know if it's near to the R7 flag ship serie of the same manufecterer !
in the beginning I had C31 with the BOM and 1210 case but believed it was better without it. BTW it allows me to understand the character of each swap at C35/C32.... alone (i.e. : just with C34 !)
If you listen just C34 alone : have you a softer background + a sort of harchness in the mid-highs and tighty trebles... but some fatiguing listening after 2 minutes ?
try first the LE serie of my C22 short list. It will help me to know if it's near to the R7 flag ship serie of the same manufecterer !
Right ! No flavors/tastes/colors: C34 is essential for decoupling the pin of the ES9023. This is the function of decoupling caps. Point is that value and ESR of C32/35 do have quite an influence as we have noticed. Still C34 is the main cap. I can guarantee that results without using the decoupling caps that are closest to the chip are bad, regardless if you use the best caps around for C32/35 and other caps. One should not try to "tune" a device this way. Well, there are many devices around that are unintentionally "tuned" that way but this is the reason you built the V3, right ?
I could suggest to make things more complicated by upping C34 to 2.2 uF but I won't 😉 Why oh why did I add pads for C32/35 ? 😀
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c'est le pad à Wan maybe ?
So I always keeped C34 of course, just swaped to 603 case by theory (lower inductance but does it needs to be so low... I assume than no because it would have be on the BOM instead the 0805... or the glasses effect ?)
What is today your personal - hors BOM- C35 & friends arrengement ?
C31 : 4.7 tantalum; C32, 1 uF MKS2 + c34 1 uf ?
So I always keeped C34 of course, just swaped to 603 case by theory (lower inductance but does it needs to be so low... I assume than no because it would have be on the BOM instead the 0805... or the glasses effect ?)
What is today your personal - hors BOM- C35 & friends arrengement ?
C31 : 4.7 tantalum; C32, 1 uF MKS2 + c34 1 uf ?
JG buffer
Hi everyone,
I wanted to ask here before going into the swap meet forum, does anyone have an extra jg board you are willing to sell for use with the Subbu v3? It seems there will be no group buy anytime soon. Just send me a PM if you do. Thanks.
Regards,
Freeman
Hi everyone,
I wanted to ask here before going into the swap meet forum, does anyone have an extra jg board you are willing to sell for use with the Subbu v3? It seems there will be no group buy anytime soon. Just send me a PM if you do. Thanks.
Regards,
Freeman
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You can make it point to point... there are no too much parts in this design. Shematics are in the ad hoc threads...
Today we had listen to modern classical from Ralph Williams Vaughn and Aron Copland.... well evrybody were falled fond of the Nichicon LE cap at C22 for its accuracy in the middle-highs ! Second were the SP Oscon from Sanyo... The SEPC & SEPF were in the third position. Little difference with my own podium between those 3 caps I choosed after ten different ones !
The base was my moddifed Subbu as described on the pdf some posts before.
Anybody else had tried the caps I tested ? Is it just good with my system & synergie at home ?
The base was my moddifed Subbu as described on the pdf some posts before.
Anybody else had tried the caps I tested ? Is it just good with my system & synergie at home ?
Eldam,
I ordered some of the caps that you mentioned in your summary and they arrived from Mouser a couple of days ago. I've been plugging various caps into the pins that I installed to allow easy swapping of C22, C21, and C32/35.
I'm still using 10uf ceramic caps for C5 and C19 in these tests but I did order some of the 1uf acrylic caps that you suggested and will try them at some point. Here's what I'm listening to right now that seems to be a very balanced combinations.
For C21, the Vreg cap for the ES9023, I like your recommendation of the 10uf Panasonic SEP part - 25SEP10M. It sounds even better than a Black Gate 10uf non-polarized N cap that I had in house.
For C22, I like the UCC APSE caps. They seem to have a more natural and extended top end in my system than other caps that I have tried, while not sacrificing the bass. I have swapped in many different caps and this one works well. I listened to Nichicon FP cap, Nichicon LE, Panasonic SEPC, and Panasonic SEP. The UCC cap that I'm using is a 560uf 6.3v cap - APSE6R3ELL561MF08S.
C32, I found the best results with a Black Gate 1uf non-polarized N cap. The difference between this and the Wima 1uf MKS2 is small but since I had this in house I'll probably use it. But I'm not sure I'd pay current market prices to buy the BG.
As was pointed out earlier, the pins/sockets that I'm using for quick swapping could color the results so I now need to solder these in and see if it changes my opinion.
It should be obvious to everyone that after a certain point, we are talking about subtle tuning to match the rest of one's system and one's taste, so consider this as tweaking to get the last percentage improvement.
----Gary
Some good discussions with friends this afternoon. They like the music but are not involved like you and I...
the Nichicon Le cap in my system was prefered but is not my personal choice. I have to say that my system is rapid, very clear, and 35 hz to 30 Khz.
The discontinued Sanyo Oscon SP is for me the best tonal balance : i'm very sensible to it. E.g. the Le caps is very most transparent, lighty but not brighty...but the lack of flesh in the mid bass and lack of bass in th every low end dictate to me the Panasonic SEP/C and not the Nichicon Le. Here the discontinued Sanyo SP is the best, Le the second, SEP the third and colored but here the last is easy living !
I surmise the Le to be best for most the systems. Good mid-bass for th etranscient but a littler lack of flesh and no low end than the SEP give at home on my system : differences are huges and people were agree on that : maybe my system is very transparent, I would like to have a good headphone or a planar to make some others tests. But on my kef 104/2 ref : changes are minim, but on my main : differences are huge ! Strange... interresting ! Good DAC ! On the Kef for me the Le cap was far the First ! (because I know this speaker has a terrible mid-bass in the positiv way). On my Boston Lynnfield : The weight added in the low mid-bass and bass give a plus ! Solo classical & jazz instrument like piano, cello, harmonica, saxophone... no doubt... But with big mass orchestra : i have to sat the Le is impressive (for me the lake of weight in the low doesnt switch of my brain during the listening! I'm hard sometimes)
i would like if possible you try the same as mine on the PDF, but you have a more transparent Duet (I surmise) and another PS for the DAC... so borring you are so far !
I'm not sure soldering change anything... not a problem Gary, very little factor here. I assume your speaker is very different to mine : you have a soft dome, and your little mid-bass make all the job ! If you have a three way as transparent as your 2 ways : what did you find ?
Most of people think a cap is best so put the same everywhere.... too bad...it's a long tunning for each system, and it's hard to abstract for others people... I hope I did it a little in my pdf.... with the little C22 podium. But it's not my philosophy : I think like a F1 each driver has to set up his car !
the Nichicon Le cap in my system was prefered but is not my personal choice. I have to say that my system is rapid, very clear, and 35 hz to 30 Khz.
The discontinued Sanyo Oscon SP is for me the best tonal balance : i'm very sensible to it. E.g. the Le caps is very most transparent, lighty but not brighty...but the lack of flesh in the mid bass and lack of bass in th every low end dictate to me the Panasonic SEP/C and not the Nichicon Le. Here the discontinued Sanyo SP is the best, Le the second, SEP the third and colored but here the last is easy living !
I surmise the Le to be best for most the systems. Good mid-bass for th etranscient but a littler lack of flesh and no low end than the SEP give at home on my system : differences are huges and people were agree on that : maybe my system is very transparent, I would like to have a good headphone or a planar to make some others tests. But on my kef 104/2 ref : changes are minim, but on my main : differences are huge ! Strange... interresting ! Good DAC ! On the Kef for me the Le cap was far the First ! (because I know this speaker has a terrible mid-bass in the positiv way). On my Boston Lynnfield : The weight added in the low mid-bass and bass give a plus ! Solo classical & jazz instrument like piano, cello, harmonica, saxophone... no doubt... But with big mass orchestra : i have to sat the Le is impressive (for me the lake of weight in the low doesnt switch of my brain during the listening! I'm hard sometimes)
i would like if possible you try the same as mine on the PDF, but you have a more transparent Duet (I surmise) and another PS for the DAC... so borring you are so far !
I'm not sure soldering change anything... not a problem Gary, very little factor here. I assume your speaker is very different to mine : you have a soft dome, and your little mid-bass make all the job ! If you have a three way as transparent as your 2 ways : what did you find ?
Most of people think a cap is best so put the same everywhere.... too bad...it's a long tunning for each system, and it's hard to abstract for others people... I hope I did it a little in my pdf.... with the little C22 podium. But it's not my philosophy : I think like a F1 each driver has to set up his car !
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Gary, I always forgett you use the Johachim's buffer... I don't. I assume this change many things...
On my to do list : i'm making a linear supply with a triple PI with coils (and a common fiilter before the trafo) and a simple TIP 142/147 darlington shunt with the shematic of TL431 maid by Abraxalito fellow... but I'm not hurry : here I have 3 470 uf caps to try for the litle EUVL/JG buffer 😛an FM, SIlmic 2, and Jamicon .... with the idea Jamicon will be the best because neutral most of the time. I would like to test here Nichicon KZ... But at least I find I'm too much fanatic as the result without buffer is very damned good already ! with my snail rapidity maybe I post something in three months...
On my to do list : i'm making a linear supply with a triple PI with coils (and a common fiilter before the trafo) and a simple TIP 142/147 darlington shunt with the shematic of TL431 maid by Abraxalito fellow... but I'm not hurry : here I have 3 470 uf caps to try for the litle EUVL/JG buffer 😛an FM, SIlmic 2, and Jamicon .... with the idea Jamicon will be the best because neutral most of the time. I would like to test here Nichicon KZ... But at least I find I'm too much fanatic as the result without buffer is very damned good already ! with my snail rapidity maybe I post something in three months...
remaid tests with my two Duet & the Xilinq caps : it stays very different : I surmise my low efficienty speaker with the mid aluminium sandwich & the aluminium treble to be good on the small signals at the price of a lack of dynamism.
For the Xilinq : the // 33 uf BG N + 100 SEPC is lighter and more throw in the face... but the transparency and timbres are... WOW ! (other Duet is good too but different with the same BG but with 39 uF R7 Nichicon FP cap...
Don't try the tamura signal transformer yet... and here the genuine smt L was keeped !
Both SB are 75 ohms linked with just a plug (wire soldered on the pcb) : there is just two plugs between the Subbu DAC & the SBs)
For the Xilinq : the // 33 uf BG N + 100 SEPC is lighter and more throw in the face... but the transparency and timbres are... WOW ! (other Duet is good too but different with the same BG but with 39 uF R7 Nichicon FP cap...
Don't try the tamura signal transformer yet... and here the genuine smt L was keeped !
Both SB are 75 ohms linked with just a plug (wire soldered on the pcb) : there is just two plugs between the Subbu DAC & the SBs)
Dear all,
I just got a subbu v3 dac with Gary B modifications, from the user forum cristi 289, which I really enjoy. It is superior to my previous tiny dac, a hifimediy 9023. More space, depth, less noise.
And I was wondering what could be done to improve it. So did anybody managed to use the dac with I2S instead of SPDIF? Any pointers to this direction would be appreciated.
Thank you
Panagiotis
I just got a subbu v3 dac with Gary B modifications, from the user forum cristi 289, which I really enjoy. It is superior to my previous tiny dac, a hifimediy 9023. More space, depth, less noise.
And I was wondering what could be done to improve it. So did anybody managed to use the dac with I2S instead of SPDIF? Any pointers to this direction would be appreciated.
Thank you
Panagiotis
Remove R4,5 & 6 . Connect your I2S to the pads of the R4,5 & 6, make sure the pads are at the ES 9023 side. R5=BCK, R6=LRCK & R4=SDI. Hope that help.
Sidney
Sidney - did you actually implement those changes, and if so was there a significant change/improvement in sound quality?
Bob,
I did mess around the I2S connection during testing and it actually works. I didn't do any AB comparison between the SPDIF and I2S but initial impression was very promising. The reason to hold off was the pads just too small to secure the I2S connection for long term operation.
I think the beta version comes with the I2S option. If JP or Subbu offer this beta board for sale I absolutely want to get a couple of this to try it.
Curryman Dac also an alternative option it comes with the JG filter/buffer. I personally still prefer the Subbu beta because I can fooling around the caps for the U3,U4 and C17,21 22,29,30,31,33 & 35.
Hope that help Bob.
Sidney
I did mess around the I2S connection during testing and it actually works. I didn't do any AB comparison between the SPDIF and I2S but initial impression was very promising. The reason to hold off was the pads just too small to secure the I2S connection for long term operation.
I think the beta version comes with the I2S option. If JP or Subbu offer this beta board for sale I absolutely want to get a couple of this to try it.
Curryman Dac also an alternative option it comes with the JG filter/buffer. I personally still prefer the Subbu beta because I can fooling around the caps for the U3,U4 and C17,21 22,29,30,31,33 & 35.
Hope that help Bob.
Sidney