Thank you for the link and input.
You may benchmak the Vifa with the ScanSpeak 10F/8425G00, I've got mine today : good wooven carbon cone and distorsion even lower than the TC9. Neodynium magnet...
But if you design for one, we surely can easily swap with some other : TG9, 10F, etc... they provide most of them a good XO above 500/600 Hz.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
The Law of Diminishing Returns is a bummer.
Vifa TC9 is made in China. I paid twelve bucks for mine.
ScanSpeak 10F is made in Denmark, sells for $96.
It's hard to tell them apart.
Right but had they both been produced in same country price difference would probably only be the real difference in costlier materials to produce a 10F verse TC9. 10F probably too costly but that said all objective data i have seen 10F squeeze the last bit and win over TC9, and as owner of both drivers will say that the better data leads to subjective 10F wins race, so think if weltersys continue down that route he could as Eldam suggest give a 10F/8424 a test run too and expect even better data.
hi Nate,
If you give me the coordinates I can prepare an Abec file for you to get you started. It will probably be next week before I have time for this though.
Kees
Neodynium and wooden fiber-glass for a 10F is a little more expensive, but buying ScanSpeak, if made in Denmark, the essential price difference will give you more pleasure when you know workers here don't sleep 8 together in a room and don't work 6/7 !
Too cheap is too expensive if you shelve tons of unused drivers ! You will win on the price of real estate square meter price !
But here this is ethic, staying pragmatic (even if I believe what is said above is), the 10F has more détails in the reproduction, a better subjective dynamic and a far better tonal balance equilibrium to my ears ! BL should be more suited for a horn as well as is the damping of its cone !
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There is definitely an audible difference between 10F and TC9. The TS parameters are way different and the more powerful motor on 10F is great for horn loading. There is also clear measurable difference in HD, CSD, and flatter frequency response. Is it worth $90 difference? Probably not. But holding the 10F in your hands it exudes quality and excellent materials and craftsmanship. Like holding an old school all brass Leica M camera vs a plastic point and shoot. The plastic camera probably has 90% of the performance of the Leica, but that last 10% can make a big difference. The blind subjective listening tests also show a clear preference for the 10F.
The fiberglass TG9FD10-8 is another story though. It is quite close to the 10F but lacks the powerful motor for horn loading.
The fiberglass TG9FD10-8 is another story though. It is quite close to the 10F but lacks the powerful motor for horn loading.
I agree 100%.
Was just bemused that the cost of going from "good" to "very good" is so expensive in this hobby.
In Denmark, drivers are made by virgins monk-girl at full moon ! Expensive, you can produce once a month and have to pay for night hours incomes !
I'm hurry to have the sandwich cone made from 2 bi-directional true wooden composite carbon sheets (to be resistant in all the directions)! It becomes less expensive...
They make it in some cabinets we call also Airbus planes or F1 cockpitt ! And us, poor audio hobysts ? Who think to us ? Magico ?
I'm hurry to have the sandwich cone made from 2 bi-directional true wooden composite carbon sheets (to be resistant in all the directions)! It becomes less expensive...
They make it in some cabinets we call also Airbus planes or F1 cockpitt ! And us, poor audio hobysts ? Who think to us ? Magico ?
The first is a sandwich. Focal have one with foam (W driver line with light foam in the core between the two surfaces of cones !
Problem of 2 layers of wooden carbon in opposite sense for the stiffness : I'm not sure it's as light for a thin cone than magnesium... but if it has no the end peak of this last, I would like to know the brands which are making it ?
Off topic here, sorry for that !
Problem of 2 layers of wooden carbon in opposite sense for the stiffness : I'm not sure it's as light for a thin cone than magnesium... but if it has no the end peak of this last, I would like to know the brands which are making it ?
Off topic here, sorry for that !
Yes it is, surprisingly so. But it's not just this hobby. I worked on some land speed records. Going faster is always amazingly difficult and expensive. Other hobbies have the same problem.
I guess you have not seen my extensive tests and subjective blind listening tests of full range drivers? Over two dozen drivers were tested and measurements in each round were performed in same setup with only change being the driver and sound level adjustment to normalize for different sensitivities. Short story is that the 10F/8424, the B80, the TG9FD, the TC9FD, and the PS95-8 all did quite well. The SB65WBAC25-4, some Peerless 83083x also faired well. Faital Pro 3FE22r16 was also up there. Overall winner was probably Visaton B80 and 10F/8424 not too far behind. There was a dark horse winner that did not measure well at all but people picked it in round 5: Alpine OEM 3.5in for Jeep Wrangler.
More info in following threads:
The 10F doesn't show up until round 2 I think.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...nd-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-3in-5in-drivers-round-2-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-3-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...d-comparison-2in-3-5in-drivers-round-5-a.html
More info in following threads:
The 10F doesn't show up until round 2 I think.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...nd-comparison-3in-5in-full-range-drivers.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-3in-5in-drivers-round-2-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-3-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...ind-comparison-2in-4in-drivers-round-4-a.html
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...d-comparison-2in-3-5in-drivers-round-5-a.html
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Oh wow, thanks for the offer! For coordinates do you want what I input into AD for the baffle (wg)? It would be interesting to compare and might get me started on the right foot. That said, if I can get AD to reasonably match my measured result then I may just stick with AD. I'll probably build a large elliptical Synergy but I can do a little "eye interpolation" for that as far as the axisymmetric sim goes. Mostly I want to investigate different mouth treatments.
I tried your workaround for extending the wg, but AD kept saying "Solver Aborted" right after I start it. Let me make sure I understand.........you're saying to have a straight duct extension between the diaphragm and the actual wg? Rather than go 10m I went 10' and then added another 10' for the VACS pressure contour setting. I tried several times and it keeps saying aborted. To get a baseline I'm now running the sim with the mouth roundover tangent to the IB. That's running just fine.
Here's a Klippel test of the 4ohm variant:
http://medleysmusings.com/scan-speak-10f4424g00-discovery-4-midrange-4-ohm-version/
Voice Coil also covered the 8 Ohm variant.
I'd like to add the Klang und Ton measurements to the above from xrk971 as an outside factory data source to compare:
TC9:
10F:
As posted on: this thread.
Much more info in this thread with measurements and waterfall plots from xrk971 as well.
But here we go cluttering up an awesome project thread about a mini Synergy horn with full range cone drivers again, sorry for that Nate!
TC9:
10F:
As posted on: this thread.
Much more info in this thread with measurements and waterfall plots from xrk971 as well.
But here we go cluttering up an awesome project thread about a mini Synergy horn with full range cone drivers again, sorry for that Nate!
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