Ok, I won't let you do all the guesswork for me.
As a starting point with this driver, I think the existing 6" Karlsonator is too small. A 0.83 scale-down of K'ator 12" looks better, at least in my crude WinISD analog. This conserves a ~24" internal height and *should hopefully* tune the front chamber around 145Hz. A rear-chamber tuning of 40Hz-45Hz could work. Cabinet width could be reduced a bit further than the 0.83x figure suggests I suppose.Here's the AD7060/M8:
I'm not too serious about the Isophon coax in a Karlsonator (would much rather sell them
) - so you can skip that one if you don't feel like it.
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hey EddieT - re: "Karlsonette", here ya go
hey IG, Karlson for some reason warned against a 0.8 scale version of K15
- I had some that size and they were pretty good - I would shorten the front
shelf then experiment with that feature for best response and mix of highs
into the upper part of the coupler as the front shelf can deflect some highs.
Karlson deleted that feature in the K12 other than the little molding lip on the
"Karlsonette".
hey IG, Karlson for some reason warned against a 0.8 scale version of K15
- I had some that size and they were pretty good - I would shorten the front
shelf then experiment with that feature for best response and mix of highs
into the upper part of the coupler as the front shelf can deflect some highs.
Karlson deleted that feature in the K12 other than the little molding lip on the
"Karlsonette".
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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It's not like his first K12 "Karlsonette" was that *much* different compared to K15, I'd say the venting scheme differed most, but enough to go from 'not recommended' to an official model? In any case, he only advised on K12 for space issues at this point in time. I've never heard bigger than K12 myself and only so with 10" and 8" drivers. The KHYBOE has me more intrigued than the K15-UF for some reason. I don't feel like buying a set of 15" drivers though, so would rather experiment with my proposed Philips fullrange K'ator. My TD15M are staying put in their matched-DI boxes, love those! The ICEpower bi-amp on them is great as well.
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the KHYBOE type should be lots of fun - they sound great with K-tubes on top and despite not going "low", sound more realistic than most fullrange cabinets I've heard (a limited amount for sure) - I think the vent area might be adjusted to alter the reflector's area.
Karlson's X15 had to be the daddy of all those spinoffs - particularly the model with large vent and horn up front
I'd to see XRK model the Acoustic 115BK for comparison's to K15 and scaled K15
X15 - apparently a model sold for organ use (?) if I ever get my BP health better then will
enlarge the port on my near copies to see and hear what happens
direct link http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img709/7820/x15rear1carl6.jpg
Karlson's X15 had to be the daddy of all those spinoffs - particularly the model with large vent and horn up front
I'd to see XRK model the Acoustic 115BK for comparison's to K15 and scaled K15
X15 - apparently a model sold for organ use (?) if I ever get my BP health better then will
enlarge the port on my near copies to see and hear what happens
direct link http://imagizer.imageshack.us/a/img709/7820/x15rear1carl6.jpg
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Ok, I won't let you do all the guesswork for me.
Here's the AD7060/M8:
I'm not too serious about the Isophon coax in a Karlsonator (would much rather sell them
Actually, a 0.814 scale-down would be good for convenience, so as to make internal height exactly 24" and enable to work with BB-ply handy panels.
I think that would work about right - also as a 10 - - a scaled K15 is one thing that's missing from my collection - where would you put that one? Jesse might try a deflecting shelf of cardboard in his Karlsonator 8. XK8 may have worked better with 24" internal height - it might be a bit tall - ?
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Interesting, I never saw that data sheet. It doesn't look very formal. Was it packed with the kits? I have the brochure, the BA catalog page and probably saw all the ads back in the day and never saw it referred to as a Karlsonette, only on these forums. Somewhere it caught on apparently without being advertised that way. Maybe he came out with the K8 so quickly thereafter and dropped it rather than incorporating it in the ads to avoid confusion.
Also, I don't recall Karlson ever referring to it as a horn though he did compare it to a horn.
Also, I don't recall Karlson ever referring to it as a horn though he did compare it to a horn.
Attachments
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that was part of the brochure - I think Wayne Green did the writing.
I just uploaded the whole brochure so you can see
https://archive.org/details/1955KarlsonSpeakerBrochure
did you ever see the 18" Karlson enclosure?
I just uploaded the whole brochure so you can see
https://archive.org/details/1955KarlsonSpeakerBrochure
did you ever see the 18" Karlson enclosure?
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Thanks, Interestingly he calls both sizes Karlsonites (in the finished models only) whereas most seem to refer only to the K12 as a Karlsonette(?). I love the Karlson lore and couldn't figure out how I missed that one. I saw the K12PK in the Raleigh Allied Radio store. A kid got permission to open the display model of the K12PK (it was dry assembled) to take measurements while I was in the store with my brother. My brother had completed his K12PK and loaded it with the recommended University 312 coax.
So, is Karlsonette an aberration or did it come along later?
So, is Karlsonette an aberration or did it come along later?
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Ok, I won't let you do all the guesswork for me.
Here's the AD7060/M8:
I'm not too serious about the Isophon coax in a Karlsonator (would much rather sell them
What is the Sd of the Phillips? I am guessing 5.5 in active membrane for Sd of 154 cm2. Assuming the above Sd here are the results - it looks like it could be a fine performer at 0.83x scale - looks ideal size. Making width smaller did not help.
FR with slot top K-aperture:
FR with cusp top K-aperture:
Cone displacement (cusp version):
Impedance (cusp version):
Attachments
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Got it, thanks.
As I looked back at the RTN article with plans I recall why the K15 is so heavy. It comes pretty close to having a full 4x8 sheet of plywood in it, plus the driver.
Gary Chemelec did something cool and scaled K15 to fit Karlson's K12 featuring the big Karlson, John warned not to scale it 0.8 as there were undesirable resonances. FWIW I think a 0.8 scale K15 sounded pretty good
- I only ran a weak motor Olson/Jensen coax, JBL D123 and an inexpensive Sammi 12 woofer with perhaps a 45oz magnet slug. At first these scaled K's had 2-3"ID ABS ducts for tuning but I'm sure a central rectangular duct like K15 is better. Maybe Karlson didn't like the effects of the front shelf in his scaled prototype as it was deleted in all future K12. It can somewhat segregate the highs from the upper part of the front chamber (if too deep).
The rear shelf seemed to have utility although I know of one builder who preferred to leave it out. That can be used to tweak the impedance and subjective transient response. The first K12 had a three position bar to vary the choke of the rear shelf lowpass gap. I'm not sure why Karlson used a split shelf for the 1957 and later K12. Sometime in the 1960's a K12 kit appeared with blank port panel and also brought back the rear lowpass shelf. FWIW I call that K12 the "3rd K12"
you should get together with Horn Fanatic - perhaps we can refine a coupler or come up with a new one that's a good performer.
Gary's K12 size made just like K15 - with the correct proportioned trim, it would look like a K15
my scaled (0.8 from K15) K12 are long gone and were too heavy being made of MDF to lug for piddling with bass guitar. I remember it graphing well and like other decent K's sounding very real on bowed acoustic bass.
the first Karlson I ever owned was a 12" cabinet scaled from K15, loaded with MTX clear polycone
with square 54oz magnet slug (probably made by CTS)- it came from Walt Bender of Audiomart and made my bass guitar sound something like an uprightai, plus K12 like this give an even tone on a bass guitar's G-string which often can sound "thin" - I gave it away and the recipient threw it away. If I live longer then will have one built to replenish the earth (that probably would get tossed after I'm gone - LOL)
- I only ran a weak motor Olson/Jensen coax, JBL D123 and an inexpensive Sammi 12 woofer with perhaps a 45oz magnet slug. At first these scaled K's had 2-3"ID ABS ducts for tuning but I'm sure a central rectangular duct like K15 is better. Maybe Karlson didn't like the effects of the front shelf in his scaled prototype as it was deleted in all future K12. It can somewhat segregate the highs from the upper part of the front chamber (if too deep).
The rear shelf seemed to have utility although I know of one builder who preferred to leave it out. That can be used to tweak the impedance and subjective transient response. The first K12 had a three position bar to vary the choke of the rear shelf lowpass gap. I'm not sure why Karlson used a split shelf for the 1957 and later K12. Sometime in the 1960's a K12 kit appeared with blank port panel and also brought back the rear lowpass shelf. FWIW I call that K12 the "3rd K12"
you should get together with Horn Fanatic - perhaps we can refine a coupler or come up with a new one that's a good performer.
Gary's K12 size made just like K15 - with the correct proportioned trim, it would look like a K15
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
my scaled (0.8 from K15) K12 are long gone and were too heavy being made of MDF to lug for piddling with bass guitar. I remember it graphing well and like other decent K's sounding very real on bowed acoustic bass.
the first Karlson I ever owned was a 12" cabinet scaled from K15, loaded with MTX clear polycone
with square 54oz magnet slug (probably made by CTS)- it came from Walt Bender of Audiomart and made my bass guitar sound something like an uprightai, plus K12 like this give an even tone on a bass guitar's G-string which often can sound "thin" - I gave it away and the recipient threw it away. If I live longer then will have one built to replenish the earth (that probably would get tossed after I'm gone - LOL)
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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What is the Sd of the Phillips? I am guessing 5.5 in active membrane for Sd of 154 cm2. Assuming the above Sd here are the results - it looks like it could be a fine performer at 0.83x scale - looks ideal size. Making width smaller did not help.
FR with slot top K-aperture:
FR with cusp top K-aperture:
Cone displacement (cusp version):
Impedance (cusp version):
Thanks for running the simulations by the way. Not sure I like how the bass part turned out. I would naturally be a safer bet for me to just do a Karlsonator 8" with FF225WK if I go ahead with a speaker project - not that I need one.
The Karlsonator is probably as much success and acceptance as anything Karlson has received since ??? Thanks to Freddi for his unrelenting appreciation of K-tech, to Greg B for the design and to XRK971 for the Akabak script and foam-core rapid prototyping approach that has attracted some folks.
I think the HAK approach along with a different rear-chamber load makes it usable with smaller drivers in a way not really possible before. I've built a pair of K5, these sure were fun, but not good by any stretch. They could play loud for one thing. Cutoff was ~150Hz, so there was no semblance of bass.
The first account I've witnessed of a sub-8" Karlson being deemed good was AmadeusMozart's HAK6.5 for Fostex FF166EN - he built a fantastic looking pair. He had praise for them and they measured much better than anything Karlson in this size range and even some larger ones.
I think the old K-TLs, I can think of two designs by Skip/Lee and perhaps Moray James as well, are supposed to be good too, though I've not read direct accounts AFAIR.
I'll just put this out here again since it seems thematically relevant. A few years back, I adapted the Fostex BK-10 back-load horn into a Karlson-type enclosure.
I conserved the driver chamber Vb, throat area, path length and expansion as well as I could. The K-slot area is about the same as the BK-10 mouth as well. It was never simulated or built. I did build an actual BK-10 out of foam-core though, before it got "all mainstream" too, btw.
Thanks to Freddi for his unrelenting appreciation of K-tech, to Greg B for the design and to XRK971 for the Akabak script and foam-core rapid prototyping approach that has attracted some folks.I think the HAK approach along with a different rear-chamber load makes it usable with smaller drivers in a way not really possible before. I've built a pair of K5, these sure were fun, but not good by any stretch. They could play loud for one thing. Cutoff was ~150Hz, so there was no semblance of bass.
The first account I've witnessed of a sub-8" Karlson being deemed good was AmadeusMozart's HAK6.5 for Fostex FF166EN - he built a fantastic looking pair. He had praise for them and they measured much better than anything Karlson in this size range and even some larger ones.
I think the old K-TLs, I can think of two designs by Skip/Lee and perhaps Moray James as well, are supposed to be good too, though I've not read direct accounts AFAIR.
I'll just put this out here again since it seems thematically relevant. A few years back, I adapted the Fostex BK-10 back-load horn into a Karlson-type enclosure.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I conserved the driver chamber Vb, throat area, path length and expansion as well as I could. The K-slot area is about the same as the BK-10 mouth as well. It was never simulated or built. I did build an actual BK-10 out of foam-core though, before it got "all mainstream" too, btw.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Ok guys, I finally have a bit of time this weekend to make some sawdust!
A few question for those more experienced...
1.) Any advice on how to best cut the front wings so they don't look like a visually challenged third grader did them? I have a router and a jigsaw at my disposal.
2.) I know it has been covered in the thread but what would the main differences be between the wings that stop 3/4 the way up and those that go to the top?
3.)Any opinions on using the SEAS FA22RCZ instead of the Fostex FE203En-S?
XRK, maybe you could run it through your sim?
A few question for those more experienced...
1.) Any advice on how to best cut the front wings so they don't look like a visually challenged third grader did them? I have a router and a jigsaw at my disposal.
2.) I know it has been covered in the thread but what would the main differences be between the wings that stop 3/4 the way up and those that go to the top?
3.)Any opinions on using the SEAS FA22RCZ instead of the Fostex FE203En-S?
XRK, maybe you could run it through your sim?
