Bass Extractor for Karlsonator Speakers
I don’t know if this has been done before, but it does yield very positive results if the angle of the deflector plate is correct. The angle will depend on the height of the speaker and ear height, as well as the distance of the listening position from the speaker. My first guess was 40 degrees from horizontal, but I get a lot more bass when sitting on the floor. That means a slightly flatter angle is required in my situation.
The size of the deflector plate will depend on how much space is available downward or how much you’re willing to raise the speakers if it’s standing on a fixed surface like mine. Revision 2 will have a larger deflector plate (it is 37mm wide atm), as I’m sure that I’m not catching all the sound waves that come streaming down and out the bottom of the K-aperture.
Take measurements, draw it out and get the angle right. And then go and enjoy free bass!
Disclaimer: Please don't expect subwoofer-magnitude bass. This concept boosts bass a bit, but it may not be enough bass for most people's tastes. Unlike a sub, it doesn't create bass from almost nothing. If the music piece doesn't have any or little bass, this gadget will not miraculously give a lot of bass.
It easy to build and cheap and that is what is important for me.
I don’t know if this has been done before, but it does yield very positive results if the angle of the deflector plate is correct. The angle will depend on the height of the speaker and ear height, as well as the distance of the listening position from the speaker. My first guess was 40 degrees from horizontal, but I get a lot more bass when sitting on the floor. That means a slightly flatter angle is required in my situation.
The size of the deflector plate will depend on how much space is available downward or how much you’re willing to raise the speakers if it’s standing on a fixed surface like mine. Revision 2 will have a larger deflector plate (it is 37mm wide atm), as I’m sure that I’m not catching all the sound waves that come streaming down and out the bottom of the K-aperture.
Take measurements, draw it out and get the angle right. And then go and enjoy free bass!
Disclaimer: Please don't expect subwoofer-magnitude bass. This concept boosts bass a bit, but it may not be enough bass for most people's tastes. Unlike a sub, it doesn't create bass from almost nothing. If the music piece doesn't have any or little bass, this gadget will not miraculously give a lot of bass.
It easy to build and cheap and that is what is important for me.
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Great idea Skylar! It could be made of white foam core board as well!
It would be interesting to refold the Karlsonator into an angled back baffle like a parallelogram. It would look cool too.
It would be interesting to refold the Karlsonator into an angled back baffle like a parallelogram. It would look cool too.
The next iteration will be of white foam core, X. And much wider too. This is just the beginning of my experimenting, but I wanted to share it here in case others are also interested.
Cool Skylar ! That should work with some classic Karlson boxes such as K12.
on a different topic, I noticed in regular Karlson type that the upper front chamber reflector size and angle seemed to affect image height and width - would take some experiments and make sure doesn't do something funky such as emphasizing dips.
the Karlsonator having a taller aspect and top vent doesn't seem to behave like the classic K with regards to cavity peaking which can be problematic with smaller K and lower Q drivers.
on a different topic, I noticed in regular Karlson type that the upper front chamber reflector size and angle seemed to affect image height and width - would take some experiments and make sure doesn't do something funky such as emphasizing dips.
the Karlsonator having a taller aspect and top vent doesn't seem to behave like the classic K with regards to cavity peaking which can be problematic with smaller K and lower Q drivers.
hi Tooppy - F15's published parameters are screwy - if below is ballpark then should play ok in a classic K15
Thanks Freddi, I may do that one day ! For the time being I placed them into a Caintuck style OB.
Thanks Freddi. Most of that is over my head, except the "emphasizing dips" part. Unfortunately, I don't have a mic, and wouldn't know how to use it anyway. But one day I'll get there.
Having said that, I made the deflector plate much wider now (125mm) and also got the angle right. Apart from added bass, it also affects the soundstage, which is more "dense" in the center than before. The easiest way to describe it is "Karlsonators on steroids". This is the best I've ever heard my speakers sound. But funny thing is, the effect is more noticeable on some music tracks - the ones with more bass.
I suspect that this idea will become a permanent fixture on my Karlsonators.
I must be the only idiot who cant extract any information from tthese files. Loaded in Viewer and spent 30min clicking around unable to get specs
Hi
I want to build the 0.53X with the Jhofland plans,
Before I started, I made an exploded view to understand it. In the attached file are the PDFs I use, the measurements are taken directly from the sketchup file. Before starting I advise you to review the measures and contrasts with the other planes and correct possible errors, encouragement with the project and enjoy the music.
Un saludo
Roberto
Thank you, I appreciate it. I am building 7 of them for the bed layer of my HT- I noticed most run these with NO crossover. Im picking up a 0.10Mh coil for each speaker just in case lol.
If you want to add some baffle step compensation (BSC) to reduce the highs and increase the bass perception. Use 1mH for 8ohms and 0.5mH for 4ohm speakers. Parallel that with 2.2ohms, 3.3ohms, 4.7ohms, or 6.8ohms. Adjust to taste. In general, Karlsonators make so much bass relative to a bass reflex you don’t need a BSC or any filter.
0.1mH isn’t going to do much but attenuate your highs above 10kHz.
0.1mH isn’t going to do much but attenuate your highs above 10kHz.
That's exactly what I found I needed with dual 3FE25's, but I chucked the BSC and now use software EQ. MiniDSP would be even better.
Hey X,
I was looking to build a MLTL with my W5-1611SAF, but then I thought they might fare well in a mini-karl.
It was asked in post #2255 way back in 2017, but I think it fell through the cracks and never got an answer.
Would you mind telling me if it's a good driver for this?
I think it would look good, and the W5 is big enough for some decent bass output, but still small enough to not use a tweeter.
Thanks, X.
I was looking to build a MLTL with my W5-1611SAF, but then I thought they might fare well in a mini-karl.
It was asked in post #2255 way back in 2017, but I think it fell through the cracks and never got an answer.
Would you mind telling me if it's a good driver for this?
I think it would look good, and the W5 is big enough for some decent bass output, but still small enough to not use a tweeter.
Thanks, X.
Hi Perceval,
Yes, the W5-1611 can work ok in a 0.53x scale Karlsonator. You will have a slight bass hump overshoot by a few dB. Better is 0.53x H&D but 0.45x W to make it a little skinnier. This wil give a flatter response. 90dB sensitivity and -3dB at 64Hz.
So if you have an 0.53x box already, just swap drivers. I wouldn't bother making it smaller in width.
Yes, the W5-1611 can work ok in a 0.53x scale Karlsonator. You will have a slight bass hump overshoot by a few dB. Better is 0.53x H&D but 0.45x W to make it a little skinnier. This wil give a flatter response. 90dB sensitivity and -3dB at 64Hz.
So if you have an 0.53x box already, just swap drivers. I wouldn't bother making it smaller in width.
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Cool.
I have a half built 0.53x box laying around.
That will push me to finish it and give it a shot.
BTW, sorry I added to your work!
I just saw you are spread around many threads out there and many questions thrown at you!
Thanks a bunch for all your help, in any thread out there! 😀
I have a half built 0.53x box laying around.
That will push me to finish it and give it a shot.
BTW, sorry I added to your work!
I just saw you are spread around many threads out there and many questions thrown at you!
Thanks a bunch for all your help, in any thread out there! 😀
No worries, I had been putting off a bunch of requested sims for a long time so might as well take care of them while I had Akabak open. So did yours, one for Freddi, and another for Kokanee. Yours was the only successful one tonight. 🙂
Now back to real work that I get paid to do.
Now back to real work that I get paid to do.
Hi XRK --
Could I ask you to run a sim for an Audio Nirvana 3" Full-Range driver, for use in a Karlsonator 0.4x? (I live in St. Louis and the AudioNirvanas are made here in the area, so ... shopping local).
Is this a suitable driver for the 0.4 size, or would some tweaking in Height / Width improve the presentation?
Audio Nirvana also makes a 4" and a 6.5" full-range ... wondering if those would work too.
Here are the specs for the 3" driver:
Def_Driver ‘AudioNirvana Classic 3’ | Audio Nirvana 12A Qts 0.90, 2.5mm xmax, 15w 85.5dB
Sd=55.16cm2
fs=155Hz
Mms=2.7g
Qms=4.15
Qes=1.15
Re=6.8ohm
BL=4.0Tm
Le=0.0mH
Vas=0.7L
https://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an3specs.jpg
*did not know how to find or calculate Le value so left at 0.0*
thanks!
Could I ask you to run a sim for an Audio Nirvana 3" Full-Range driver, for use in a Karlsonator 0.4x? (I live in St. Louis and the AudioNirvanas are made here in the area, so ... shopping local).
Is this a suitable driver for the 0.4 size, or would some tweaking in Height / Width improve the presentation?
Audio Nirvana also makes a 4" and a 6.5" full-range ... wondering if those would work too.
Here are the specs for the 3" driver:
Def_Driver ‘AudioNirvana Classic 3’ | Audio Nirvana 12A Qts 0.90, 2.5mm xmax, 15w 85.5dB
Sd=55.16cm2
fs=155Hz
Mms=2.7g
Qms=4.15
Qes=1.15
Re=6.8ohm
BL=4.0Tm
Le=0.0mH
Vas=0.7L
https://www.commonsenseaudio.com/an3specs.jpg
*did not know how to find or calculate Le value so left at 0.0*
thanks!
I' ve read the forum on mini karlsonators projects, I have both rs 40-1197 and peerless tc9fd18-8. I listened to both drivers in a mock box...rs 40-1197 sounds more revealing and midrange forward, I like it more, but I have such little space for a pair. I have a subwoofer, bass extension would not be a problem. so I thought putting one rs 40-1197 in a 0.44x karlsonator meant for the tc9fd...is it possible? It is the width of the enclosure which is too big for my space, 8.25" vs. 6"...
The design for the 1197 had been tested and proven. It works very well.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ful...onator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds-154.html#post4458490
The 0.44x was specifically designed for 1197, not TC9FD.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/ful...onator-0-53x-dual-tc9fds-154.html#post4458490
The 0.44x was specifically designed for 1197, not TC9FD.
This is a typical 3.5in driver (36cm^2 Sd based on 6.8cm dia membrane) with Qts 0.9 but fs is rather high. Based on my experience designing these - no need for a simulation. It should work fine in a 0.4x scale Karlsonator.