Now to the electronics
I had my wood box, now I needed to fit those PSU components in there... Opps, I would not have minded going a little bigger, esp on my first PSU build... ended up having to cut the rectifier board in half. I was lucky I could, as I could not "see" all the traces, but the multi-meter said it was a go, so...
I tested everything out before installing it in the box, and it worked! There is nothing as gratifying as seeing that little LED light up, on flicker in the bulb tester and no sparks!
It was even better once it was installed in the wood box
I do have a metal case that will wrap around the top bottom and sides - I am hiring out that part as I do not have the tools to do that well.
I had my wood box, now I needed to fit those PSU components in there... Opps, I would not have minded going a little bigger, esp on my first PSU build... ended up having to cut the rectifier board in half. I was lucky I could, as I could not "see" all the traces, but the multi-meter said it was a go, so...
I tested everything out before installing it in the box, and it worked! There is nothing as gratifying as seeing that little LED light up, on flicker in the bulb tester and no sparks!
It was even better once it was installed in the wood box
I do have a metal case that will wrap around the top bottom and sides - I am hiring out that part as I do not have the tools to do that well.
Attachments
shrivelled-up, dehydrating mid range
Hi there: Noticed in the last open picture through the driver hole numerous blocks of wood. Could those blocks be reflecting various frequencys that are clouding the mid range sound? Often sound deading material is placed behind the driver to prevent reflections back through the cone material. ...regards, Michael
Hi there: Noticed in the last open picture through the driver hole numerous blocks of wood. Could those blocks be reflecting various frequencys that are clouding the mid range sound? Often sound deading material is placed behind the driver to prevent reflections back through the cone material. ...regards, Michael
Now the amps
I ordered the Penn-Elcom Heat Sink boxes for the amps. These are some well manufactured products. You can order fronts and backs also, but I didn't becuase I was using the wood. I tried several types of screws with these. The #4 machine screws held in two of the 16 holes (4 per panel) and the medium thread were no better. The #6 machine screws I had broke while screwing them in, but these where "gold" colored screws, made out of cheap metal. The best screws where #6 medium thread 1" length screws. I would like to find better looking ones then the silver colored ones I used, but these did not brake. The picture of the wood panels screwed on the cases are on a later post.
These pictures show the grove you can use in these cases to bolt down the chip. I also cut a piece of alumium because I wanted the whole chip to have contact with metal (without a groove down the middle). The #4 machine screws I had fit down this groove well. I shopped around for a nut head screw that would fit this groove, but no one here had anything. I had to add solder to the screw heads to prevent them from spinning around while I tightened the nut to bolt the chip and alumium down to the case. I used thermal paste on both the chip and alumium. I am amazed that I did this without making a mess. The cost for all this was a lot of figuring time. Designing custom cases requires creativity and time... I am really glad you all have patience!
I ordered the Penn-Elcom Heat Sink boxes for the amps. These are some well manufactured products. You can order fronts and backs also, but I didn't becuase I was using the wood. I tried several types of screws with these. The #4 machine screws held in two of the 16 holes (4 per panel) and the medium thread were no better. The #6 machine screws I had broke while screwing them in, but these where "gold" colored screws, made out of cheap metal. The best screws where #6 medium thread 1" length screws. I would like to find better looking ones then the silver colored ones I used, but these did not brake. The picture of the wood panels screwed on the cases are on a later post.
These pictures show the grove you can use in these cases to bolt down the chip. I also cut a piece of alumium because I wanted the whole chip to have contact with metal (without a groove down the middle). The #4 machine screws I had fit down this groove well. I shopped around for a nut head screw that would fit this groove, but no one here had anything. I had to add solder to the screw heads to prevent them from spinning around while I tightened the nut to bolt the chip and alumium down to the case. I used thermal paste on both the chip and alumium. I am amazed that I did this without making a mess. The cost for all this was a lot of figuring time. Designing custom cases requires creativity and time... I am really glad you all have patience!
Attachments
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Wow, you guys are on!
Hang in there michael droke and zman01, I still have a lot of typing and pictures to post, there is more to the story I have not shared yet, but your comments are very encouraging! Thanks for being a part of this journey!
Okay, after many hours turning into days of threading screw holes and mounting hardware, jacks and crimping wires, it came time to solder the signal and power wires to the boards. Actually, I had the wires on before I moulted the chips to the heat sinks cases.
PSU tested out perfect, now time to plug in the amps and test the DC off set. A little high with no load, but the bulb did not light and there where no sparks. I can not believe how excitingly nerveracking (in a good way)this simple circuit is. The last photo shows my JVC Hi-Fi Stereo VHS machine that recently bloke. Look at the board in that thing, and it has worked, stills works faithfully to this day since 1990! It is a mechanical problem that I am not willing to fix, time to upgrade to blu-ray. Anyway, I digress...
Do you know the elation you feel when you plug an input signal into an amp you built from a kit in a custom designed case and it produces clean music thru your test speaker... then you have the chance to experience it again with channel 2!
Hang in there michael droke and zman01, I still have a lot of typing and pictures to post, there is more to the story I have not shared yet, but your comments are very encouraging! Thanks for being a part of this journey!
Okay, after many hours turning into days of threading screw holes and mounting hardware, jacks and crimping wires, it came time to solder the signal and power wires to the boards. Actually, I had the wires on before I moulted the chips to the heat sinks cases.
PSU tested out perfect, now time to plug in the amps and test the DC off set. A little high with no load, but the bulb did not light and there where no sparks. I can not believe how excitingly nerveracking (in a good way)this simple circuit is. The last photo shows my JVC Hi-Fi Stereo VHS machine that recently bloke. Look at the board in that thing, and it has worked, stills works faithfully to this day since 1990! It is a mechanical problem that I am not willing to fix, time to upgrade to blu-ray. Anyway, I digress...
Do you know the elation you feel when you plug an input signal into an amp you built from a kit in a custom designed case and it produces clean music thru your test speaker... then you have the chance to experience it again with channel 2!
Attachments
Out come the Alpair 12s with light music
Okay, so begins the breaking in process. Alpair 12s unbaffled, playing classical music at a low volume level thru completed chip amps still hooked up to the bulb tester...
Now it is time to install the denim product. I am thinking at this point if I had it to do again, I would build the amps first!
So I cut the denim to fit in the gap between the disfusion assembly and the back chamber walls. The big piece goes in front of the disfusion chamber and up the rest of the sides to the horn throats as per Dave's instructions. I tacked this in with small dabs of wood glue in case I want to change it later. This denim product was very agreeable to work with. I have not installed any fluff into the horn throats yet, i want to hear it raw first... which brings us back to the dry orange...
My thoughts where the same as micheal's and Zman's, they need more time, oh God! More Time! Aghhh!... yes, deep down I knew that! This project has been all about Time, so much time, and carving out more Time from nothingness and still needing more, so much more! Overtime at work. Artwork to create for ChristMas presents, hand made cards to 64 people, brownies and big dinners. I absolutely Love it! That is what makes the journey so great! I am so glad I can share the joy and tribulations with you all out there. But there is more...
Okay, so begins the breaking in process. Alpair 12s unbaffled, playing classical music at a low volume level thru completed chip amps still hooked up to the bulb tester...
Now it is time to install the denim product. I am thinking at this point if I had it to do again, I would build the amps first!
So I cut the denim to fit in the gap between the disfusion assembly and the back chamber walls. The big piece goes in front of the disfusion chamber and up the rest of the sides to the horn throats as per Dave's instructions. I tacked this in with small dabs of wood glue in case I want to change it later. This denim product was very agreeable to work with. I have not installed any fluff into the horn throats yet, i want to hear it raw first... which brings us back to the dry orange...
My thoughts where the same as micheal's and Zman's, they need more time, oh God! More Time! Aghhh!... yes, deep down I knew that! This project has been all about Time, so much time, and carving out more Time from nothingness and still needing more, so much more! Overtime at work. Artwork to create for ChristMas presents, hand made cards to 64 people, brownies and big dinners. I absolutely Love it! That is what makes the journey so great! I am so glad I can share the joy and tribulations with you all out there. But there is more...
Attachments
The rest of the story...
So there I was, two Avebury cabinets built in the raw, producing sound. all day long. I was very concerned about the mid-range, but the bass kept catching my attention. By this point, the Alpairs had 30 hours of break-in (not including what Dave had done before he tested and EnAbled the drivers). So I stepped the music up to Orchestral movie soundtracks. All of the break-in music came from Internet radio...
Off I went to do yoga, upstairs. They sound great in that room. Volume was at 24% on the computer, and I could gently feel the bass in the floor! I had to come down to make sure I was not over doing it... ...the drivers where moving 1mm at most! Impressive!
Okay, time to play some of my music library: Emma Shapplin "Carmine Meo". @#$%, why does it sound like I just rubbed my hand across some fibreglass insulation! something is off here! Now, lets keep in mind I am listening to this thru my PC, thru the mother board. Yes, you know where this is going...
I have not built my light speed yet, but I decided to hook-up my laser disc player to my TV which has an audio out... Okay, sounding better, now more like rubbing my hand across a nice thick rug that needs to be vacuumed. I also could try my PC thru the HDMI hook-up, and actually that was better then the mother board. TV adds hum and noise, but I can minimize it with the visualizer in I-tunes.
Discovery #1: DAC matters. What is better, HDMI - Philips TV DAC or Pioneer CLD-3070 DAC?..
Now comes discovery #2...
The pioneer has more gain, and I forgot to lower the volume on one of the comparisons. No, I did not blow the drivers, I instead got a light show form the bulb tester! What surprised me with this, is the song I was playing was just vocal and paino, but when Emma was belting it out, the bulb lit. That bulb tester is the coolest thing! I have read that this is a normal occurance. I also noticed that when the bulb lit, my rug get dirtier! So I pushed the bypass button... like a vacuum - the dirt gone. Out come the bulb tester, I am present, so I can keep an eye and ear on the amps... They have been running fine since and the heat sinks seem to be sufficant so far...
Sounding much better, the war of the DAC's continue:
-1- Mother board is the quietest (I know that is hard to believe) And has the deepest bass, but it is the lifeless of them all.
-2- HDMI thru Philips - noisyest, has something to do with the computer to TV interface, it even affects all the other inputs on the TV when the computer is on. But this DAC has the silkyest high. Soundstange is confined to the front of the room to between the speakers.
-3- Poineer CLD-3070 - as noisy as the HDMI when the computer is on, as quiet as the mother board when off. The highs have less resolution. This player is from 1991. I was not kidding you when I mentioned that I was starting this system from anew, look at my VCR above!! Anyway the nice thing about this DAC is the Sound stage extends to the sides of the room and sneeks a little bit to the back. I would like more in the back but maybe the light speed will bring that, along with more break-in.
-1B- I tried the mother board thru the TV also (PC volume all the way up) It sounded better, but still not as good as the HDMI. Sound stage is almost mono on this set-up.
I am researching DAC's, have been for some time, I would enjoy any options any of you may have. I am looking to up grade to blu-ray real soon. I would like to go PC based thru HDMI and exteral DAC, but there are cavets with current software. A stand alone player is an option too, but I want one that plays DVD's without skipping! I am looking at Oppo for $800 which is too much, excellent DAC though. I know twisted pear has this DAC DIY, but still $500? for parts without case??? V-DAC looking like a good option.
So, I have realized that these speakers, eventhough they are not fully broken in, they are very resolving. In fact, today, I noticed that the left channel was more lively then the right. I switched amps, not it. I switched channels, not it. I switched interconects, not it. It is good to know that my amps are in balance but what about these matched drivers?..
Out come the cat-5 wire. I still had the zip cord test wire in place between the amp and speaker. So I set up one run of cat-5 for each side, that is four strands per connection. Hang on Dave, I am getting to that... This fixed the problem! This is when I realized that these speakers can produce a soundstage!
Discovery #3 - Wire matters! We all know this kind of stuff matters, but it is nice to prove it!
So, Dave, I am sure you noticed that I wired the speakers with four strands per connection - 3 reasons:
#1 In case one or more broke durring glueing or down the road.
#2 In case I get a chance to get the frozen wire done, I will have a big enough hole to feed it thru, or any other wire choice I may want later.
#3 So I can compare 4 strands to one.
So that brings us to the present moment. As you can see from the photo below, my amps are not staying put due to that tooo thick speakon cable. I will not use that again. I will figure out some way to "harness" these to look good on my shelf. I am very happy with the amps, eventhough I will not do one this small as it was very difficult to wire them up. I will post better pictures when I have the PSU fully enclosed with "wholy" metal.
Also I have the outsides of the Avebury cabinets to finish, because I am sure the diffraction I have now is hearable! I have to say, I have never heard a full range driver that has as smooth as a mid-treble as these do. Thank-you Dave and Mark Audio! We are at the tip of the iceburg here. There is more to come, including a light speed volume control.
I will also add at this point, that this is the lowest bass and biggest bass I have ever heard from a six inch speaker. I have watched parts of a few Laser Disc movies like Star Trek Generations (THX version) and the original Star Wars (non-THX) and liked very much what I heard. I have not pushed it with volume and I really do not feel I need to yet. These are satifying at moderate levels. I got a little more felt bass with my subwoofer on my old system, but I get more impact from this system. The bass is lead by the mid-range, which is very hard to get with a subwoofer. This system is strong that way. I think this system can belt out some felt bass at higher volume levels. And if not, there are always butt shakers if I have the desire.
The highs are not quite as resolved as my old system's Hi-Vi R-II Pro (removed back for open baffle use), but I do not miss that. I like the connection between the mid-treble to the highs, again very hard to do on a multi-way system. So I guess I won't be selling the Avebury cabinets on swap meets!
God Bless you all, I had better get to my night job, it is getting late and I have dinner to eat yet! .
Allen
So there I was, two Avebury cabinets built in the raw, producing sound. all day long. I was very concerned about the mid-range, but the bass kept catching my attention. By this point, the Alpairs had 30 hours of break-in (not including what Dave had done before he tested and EnAbled the drivers). So I stepped the music up to Orchestral movie soundtracks. All of the break-in music came from Internet radio...
Off I went to do yoga, upstairs. They sound great in that room. Volume was at 24% on the computer, and I could gently feel the bass in the floor! I had to come down to make sure I was not over doing it... ...the drivers where moving 1mm at most! Impressive!
Okay, time to play some of my music library: Emma Shapplin "Carmine Meo". @#$%, why does it sound like I just rubbed my hand across some fibreglass insulation! something is off here! Now, lets keep in mind I am listening to this thru my PC, thru the mother board. Yes, you know where this is going...
I have not built my light speed yet, but I decided to hook-up my laser disc player to my TV which has an audio out... Okay, sounding better, now more like rubbing my hand across a nice thick rug that needs to be vacuumed. I also could try my PC thru the HDMI hook-up, and actually that was better then the mother board. TV adds hum and noise, but I can minimize it with the visualizer in I-tunes.
Discovery #1: DAC matters. What is better, HDMI - Philips TV DAC or Pioneer CLD-3070 DAC?..
Now comes discovery #2...
The pioneer has more gain, and I forgot to lower the volume on one of the comparisons. No, I did not blow the drivers, I instead got a light show form the bulb tester! What surprised me with this, is the song I was playing was just vocal and paino, but when Emma was belting it out, the bulb lit. That bulb tester is the coolest thing! I have read that this is a normal occurance. I also noticed that when the bulb lit, my rug get dirtier! So I pushed the bypass button... like a vacuum - the dirt gone. Out come the bulb tester, I am present, so I can keep an eye and ear on the amps... They have been running fine since and the heat sinks seem to be sufficant so far...
Sounding much better, the war of the DAC's continue:
-1- Mother board is the quietest (I know that is hard to believe) And has the deepest bass, but it is the lifeless of them all.
-2- HDMI thru Philips - noisyest, has something to do with the computer to TV interface, it even affects all the other inputs on the TV when the computer is on. But this DAC has the silkyest high. Soundstange is confined to the front of the room to between the speakers.
-3- Poineer CLD-3070 - as noisy as the HDMI when the computer is on, as quiet as the mother board when off. The highs have less resolution. This player is from 1991. I was not kidding you when I mentioned that I was starting this system from anew, look at my VCR above!! Anyway the nice thing about this DAC is the Sound stage extends to the sides of the room and sneeks a little bit to the back. I would like more in the back but maybe the light speed will bring that, along with more break-in.
-1B- I tried the mother board thru the TV also (PC volume all the way up) It sounded better, but still not as good as the HDMI. Sound stage is almost mono on this set-up.
I am researching DAC's, have been for some time, I would enjoy any options any of you may have. I am looking to up grade to blu-ray real soon. I would like to go PC based thru HDMI and exteral DAC, but there are cavets with current software. A stand alone player is an option too, but I want one that plays DVD's without skipping! I am looking at Oppo for $800 which is too much, excellent DAC though. I know twisted pear has this DAC DIY, but still $500? for parts without case??? V-DAC looking like a good option.
So, I have realized that these speakers, eventhough they are not fully broken in, they are very resolving. In fact, today, I noticed that the left channel was more lively then the right. I switched amps, not it. I switched channels, not it. I switched interconects, not it. It is good to know that my amps are in balance but what about these matched drivers?..
Out come the cat-5 wire. I still had the zip cord test wire in place between the amp and speaker. So I set up one run of cat-5 for each side, that is four strands per connection. Hang on Dave, I am getting to that... This fixed the problem! This is when I realized that these speakers can produce a soundstage!
Discovery #3 - Wire matters! We all know this kind of stuff matters, but it is nice to prove it!
So, Dave, I am sure you noticed that I wired the speakers with four strands per connection - 3 reasons:
#1 In case one or more broke durring glueing or down the road.
#2 In case I get a chance to get the frozen wire done, I will have a big enough hole to feed it thru, or any other wire choice I may want later.
#3 So I can compare 4 strands to one.
So that brings us to the present moment. As you can see from the photo below, my amps are not staying put due to that tooo thick speakon cable. I will not use that again. I will figure out some way to "harness" these to look good on my shelf. I am very happy with the amps, eventhough I will not do one this small as it was very difficult to wire them up. I will post better pictures when I have the PSU fully enclosed with "wholy" metal.
Also I have the outsides of the Avebury cabinets to finish, because I am sure the diffraction I have now is hearable! I have to say, I have never heard a full range driver that has as smooth as a mid-treble as these do. Thank-you Dave and Mark Audio! We are at the tip of the iceburg here. There is more to come, including a light speed volume control.
I will also add at this point, that this is the lowest bass and biggest bass I have ever heard from a six inch speaker. I have watched parts of a few Laser Disc movies like Star Trek Generations (THX version) and the original Star Wars (non-THX) and liked very much what I heard. I have not pushed it with volume and I really do not feel I need to yet. These are satifying at moderate levels. I got a little more felt bass with my subwoofer on my old system, but I get more impact from this system. The bass is lead by the mid-range, which is very hard to get with a subwoofer. This system is strong that way. I think this system can belt out some felt bass at higher volume levels. And if not, there are always butt shakers if I have the desire.
The highs are not quite as resolved as my old system's Hi-Vi R-II Pro (removed back for open baffle use), but I do not miss that. I like the connection between the mid-treble to the highs, again very hard to do on a multi-way system. So I guess I won't be selling the Avebury cabinets on swap meets!
God Bless you all, I had better get to my night job, it is getting late and I have dinner to eat yet! .
Allen
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Dont' overlook the Oppo BDP-93. $500 and great DAC (equiv of what you're talking about).
Thanks fastbike1
The linch pin in this decision is as follows:
I really believe the future will be data... no discs, records, tapes, etc. All our music and movies will be stored into solid state memory devices at bit rates and resolutions well beyond anything we have now and analog for that matter. And I believe this is going to happen soon. So if I go the PC route, I will have a head start... Although the DACs will be so much better by that time, that I would want a whole new system anyway! So really how good do I want my I-tunes and streamed video to sound?
So the Oppo BDP-93 sounds as good as V-DAC? Keep in mind it will be used for CDs also. According to the research I have done so far in this price range, Oppo, V-DAC, and DigiMagic come up a lot. No comparisons between Oppo and these other DAC's. There also does not seem to be much at all in the way of DIY in this area either. What is up with that?
Thanks for your input.
Namaste"
Allen
The linch pin in this decision is as follows:
I really believe the future will be data... no discs, records, tapes, etc. All our music and movies will be stored into solid state memory devices at bit rates and resolutions well beyond anything we have now and analog for that matter. And I believe this is going to happen soon. So if I go the PC route, I will have a head start... Although the DACs will be so much better by that time, that I would want a whole new system anyway! So really how good do I want my I-tunes and streamed video to sound?
So the Oppo BDP-93 sounds as good as V-DAC? Keep in mind it will be used for CDs also. According to the research I have done so far in this price range, Oppo, V-DAC, and DigiMagic come up a lot. No comparisons between Oppo and these other DAC's. There also does not seem to be much at all in the way of DIY in this area either. What is up with that?
Thanks for your input.
Namaste"
Allen
Agreed.
I have one of the last PowerMac G5 (was free, if i had to buy one it would be a MacMini), into an Edirol (now CakeWalk) FA66 Firewire DAC (hits well above its price and gives me an ADC for digitizing vinyl and as part of my measure system). OS, iTunes & PureVinyl run off a small internal SATA (will eventually sub in an SSD), and music data sits on an external USB drive (1 TB for now). Music backup to internal 1 TB.
CD player (quite a good one) has effectively been mothballed.
dave
the most fun I've had recently is playing ALAC files from iPhone/ iPod through Pure i20's built-in DAC - certainly not the resolution of tweaky separates at 10 or 100s times the cost, and of course not (yet) capable of higher resolution than red book but ...
The trend is being set
I know when I play a CD directly in my PC, it paints a more detailed soundstage then the data files (even apple lossless) but it is not too far off. I pick the CD for listening and the data file for background.
Really the only thing holding me back going the PC with DAC route is the current lack of reliable blu-ray software. My PC currently plays both CDs and DVD's better then my Pioneer CLD-3070, my old DVD player (which I threw out after skipping yet another DVD) and the playstation 3 (which I got my money back for). Surely they will come out with some good software soon.
The other advantage going with an out board DAC, is I can use it with my Laser Discs also. I think the sound on that format stomps DVD, eventhough the picture is almost fuzzy in comparison due to the composite video/S-video connections. HDMI helps DVD a lot.
We are setting the trend here guys!
May the Force be with you!
Allen
Yes, I have wondered about Firewire devices. You would think they would be good as people use them to RECORD music! The musican I sold my last speakers to used CakeWalk 9 with M-Audio ADC/DAC. Inever got I chance to hear music I was familiar with thru his system with my speakers, too busy jamming! I have done some research on this and there does not seem to be much said.
So are you saying you prefer the sound of your Apple system over the CD player, or it is a matter of convience?
I know when I play a CD directly in my PC, it paints a more detailed soundstage then the data files (even apple lossless) but it is not too far off. I pick the CD for listening and the data file for background.
Really the only thing holding me back going the PC with DAC route is the current lack of reliable blu-ray software. My PC currently plays both CDs and DVD's better then my Pioneer CLD-3070, my old DVD player (which I threw out after skipping yet another DVD) and the playstation 3 (which I got my money back for). Surely they will come out with some good software soon.
The other advantage going with an out board DAC, is I can use it with my Laser Discs also. I think the sound on that format stomps DVD, eventhough the picture is almost fuzzy in comparison due to the composite video/S-video connections. HDMI helps DVD a lot.
We are setting the trend here guys!
May the Force be with you!
Allen
With just iTunes and the old iMac it was as good, as i've improved the server replay (sw & bigger hw) it has surpassed the CD player (big Myryad)
I understand iTunes on a PC is compromised by Apple following the programming rules and not bypassing the inferior sound toolbox routines in Windows.
Even on the Mac things like PureMusic & Amarra bypass Core Audio to improve things.
dave
bigger fishs to fry!
The balance between the bass and treble is good, it is that midrange that needs to come out and play. It is getting better. When I play a snare thru this system I get a good attack and decay, just no body. I would say this system is at about 90% of what my last open baffle system was... but this system is not done.
Let me elaborate the 10%:
5% felt bass
5% larger sound stage even thru my lifeless motherboard DAC.
I am comparing this system to a 4-way open baffle system, each driver had its own class-D amp and electronic cross-over (except between tweeter and mid-range - never got to it). Each channel had a 12" sub-woofer (peerless), 12" mid-bass (fostex FW-305), 8" midrange (fostex FF-225) and ribbon tweeter (Hi-Vi R-II Pro). That is a lot more power and air being moved! I would say Avebury is doing really well comparied to all of that!
Now here is where Avebury stomps that system:
#1 - Coherant sound - even with the laid back mid-range, the music is a unified whole. The bass actually comes from something! It is not just an omni present vibration in the room playing along with the midrange, it flows from the mid-range. Same with the highs. The sibilance and cymbal crashes are in the same venue as the people and the drums. I found also that the drivers in the multi-way system really interfered with each other, and that affected soundstage alot eventhough I built a time-aligned (angled) cabinet for that system.
#2 - Pain-free mid-treble (2-5K region). I have only heard a handful of speakers that can do this, none of them using dynamic drivers, let alone a full-range driver! I am not saying there are others out there, it is just I have never heard them personally. This is a big one for me, becuase this ruined it for me with my old system. I would be watching Star Wars - Revenge of the Sith, the beginning rescue scene - Anakin and Obi-Wan would be falling in the elevator and Obi would call R2-D2 for help, "R2..." Ouch, Ouch.. echo in the room, "Come in R2..." ouch ouch! The soundstage was cool, but... The tweeter could not go low enogh and the fostex could not go high enough. Not with Alpair 12 and Avebury. I am not sure if it is the driver, Dave's EnAble, my diffusors or all three. What I do know, is that in the past when I mounted a driver in a "regular" cabinet, the pain increased so... Less so in a poorly designed rear horn and even less so in an open baffle. But it would seem with the right driver and well designed and built cabinet, this is something one does not have to live with.
#3 - Scale. This system sounds as big as my other system, which is amazing. It does sound like there are more drivers in this system, then just one 6" full-range. And it should, becuase the cabinets are big. But phyiscally I do not believe there is any other way to get true to life scale in sound. It is just with this design you get the above benefits aswell. Buy an exceptional speaker, you only need one/channel. Buy that nice amp, you only need one/channel.
Speaking of which, I really love those chip amps. If any of you are looking for an affordable upgrade from comsumer grade amps, get these. They seem to be smoother then the 100 watt Sure Tri-path class-D I had before. The fact that I can hear such differences between these mediorce DAC's I have and copper zip cord -vs- copper cat-5 says a lot. Of course that could be Alpair 12 too. I really like these amps. I cranked them a little last night and they held together well, whereas the mid bass would start to fall apart on my old system. That could be becuase that system was open baffle, it needs lots of juice for the lows. Avebury seems to be efficent in this regards.
So... all and all Avebury is a move in the right direction for me. Felt bass is not as important to me as much as deep impactful bass that has "presence". Please understand this. All the bass is there with these cabinets, it is just not as felt. The bass will "attend" your living room concerts...
....The thing that would really put this system over the top for me is more juice in the mid-range. I am hoping that is coming! That is what gives a sound system the "illusion" of reality. Sound stage, more sound stage. I believe you can have too much sound stage.
Speaking of which, I am going to build a Light Speed now, see if I can extract more sound stage by bypassing the TV's pre-amp.
Dream Big
Allen
The balance between the bass and treble is good, it is that midrange that needs to come out and play. It is getting better. When I play a snare thru this system I get a good attack and decay, just no body. I would say this system is at about 90% of what my last open baffle system was... but this system is not done.
Let me elaborate the 10%:
5% felt bass
5% larger sound stage even thru my lifeless motherboard DAC.
I am comparing this system to a 4-way open baffle system, each driver had its own class-D amp and electronic cross-over (except between tweeter and mid-range - never got to it). Each channel had a 12" sub-woofer (peerless), 12" mid-bass (fostex FW-305), 8" midrange (fostex FF-225) and ribbon tweeter (Hi-Vi R-II Pro). That is a lot more power and air being moved! I would say Avebury is doing really well comparied to all of that!
Now here is where Avebury stomps that system:
#1 - Coherant sound - even with the laid back mid-range, the music is a unified whole. The bass actually comes from something! It is not just an omni present vibration in the room playing along with the midrange, it flows from the mid-range. Same with the highs. The sibilance and cymbal crashes are in the same venue as the people and the drums. I found also that the drivers in the multi-way system really interfered with each other, and that affected soundstage alot eventhough I built a time-aligned (angled) cabinet for that system.
#2 - Pain-free mid-treble (2-5K region). I have only heard a handful of speakers that can do this, none of them using dynamic drivers, let alone a full-range driver! I am not saying there are others out there, it is just I have never heard them personally. This is a big one for me, becuase this ruined it for me with my old system. I would be watching Star Wars - Revenge of the Sith, the beginning rescue scene - Anakin and Obi-Wan would be falling in the elevator and Obi would call R2-D2 for help, "R2..." Ouch, Ouch.. echo in the room, "Come in R2..." ouch ouch! The soundstage was cool, but... The tweeter could not go low enogh and the fostex could not go high enough. Not with Alpair 12 and Avebury. I am not sure if it is the driver, Dave's EnAble, my diffusors or all three. What I do know, is that in the past when I mounted a driver in a "regular" cabinet, the pain increased so... Less so in a poorly designed rear horn and even less so in an open baffle. But it would seem with the right driver and well designed and built cabinet, this is something one does not have to live with.
#3 - Scale. This system sounds as big as my other system, which is amazing. It does sound like there are more drivers in this system, then just one 6" full-range. And it should, becuase the cabinets are big. But phyiscally I do not believe there is any other way to get true to life scale in sound. It is just with this design you get the above benefits aswell. Buy an exceptional speaker, you only need one/channel. Buy that nice amp, you only need one/channel.
Speaking of which, I really love those chip amps. If any of you are looking for an affordable upgrade from comsumer grade amps, get these. They seem to be smoother then the 100 watt Sure Tri-path class-D I had before. The fact that I can hear such differences between these mediorce DAC's I have and copper zip cord -vs- copper cat-5 says a lot. Of course that could be Alpair 12 too. I really like these amps. I cranked them a little last night and they held together well, whereas the mid bass would start to fall apart on my old system. That could be becuase that system was open baffle, it needs lots of juice for the lows. Avebury seems to be efficent in this regards.
So... all and all Avebury is a move in the right direction for me. Felt bass is not as important to me as much as deep impactful bass that has "presence". Please understand this. All the bass is there with these cabinets, it is just not as felt. The bass will "attend" your living room concerts...
....The thing that would really put this system over the top for me is more juice in the mid-range. I am hoping that is coming! That is what gives a sound system the "illusion" of reality. Sound stage, more sound stage. I believe you can have too much sound stage.
Speaking of which, I am going to build a Light Speed now, see if I can extract more sound stage by bypassing the TV's pre-amp.
Dream Big
Allen
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Thanks Dave
Yeap, the war between Apple and PC must go on! It makes the world go round. So, if I get the DAC is there a way I can by-pass these inferior Window issues? Or is there better software geared for PC. I do not expect you to know this, Dave, however if you could guide me to a source of information (another thread perhaps), I would be expressing gratitude over gratitude. It seems that you have done your fair share of trail and tribulation in this area.
Thanks, and Thanks and all the more Thanks
Allen
P.S. Oh yeah, did I mention Thanks!?!
Yeap, the war between Apple and PC must go on! It makes the world go round. So, if I get the DAC is there a way I can by-pass these inferior Window issues? Or is there better software geared for PC. I do not expect you to know this, Dave, however if you could guide me to a source of information (another thread perhaps), I would be expressing gratitude over gratitude. It seems that you have done your fair share of trail and tribulation in this area.
Thanks, and Thanks and all the more Thanks
Allen
P.S. Oh yeah, did I mention Thanks!?!
Artsy, if you're a pre-Vista user, have a look for 'ASIO' and a program that can use it as an output device (Foobar is my favourite). There's an almost equivalent for Vista/7 but I'd have to have a look at home but I'm sure someone else could chime in. The PC Based section of the forum is probably the best place to look/ask around.
ASIO works on Win 7 too - tried on one of my PCs with Win 7 Home Premium installed. IMHO Foobar SQ is better than Windows Media Player even withou using ASIO.
The key thing would be to get a decent sound card - an Asus Xonar or Auzentech X-Meridian 7.1 would be a good choice. I have the Xonar STX (2 channel sound only) and the sound quality is very good. With some of these cards you can change the opamps and in the process change the sonic signature.
On board integrated audio will not do the A12 justice - and in my experience the A12 is very adept at exposing weaknesses or changes in the audio chain.
-Zia
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