Rewind,
Perhaps you missed this horn (although it uses 2x10", not a single 12):
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/mult...ual-single-point-source-horn.html#post4114406
The SynTripP horn has a measured F3 of 82 Hz, although the ports it uses "as built" are of a different size and shape than the Hornresp sim that results in the same Fb, but it measures close to the sim.
Three things for certain: the SynTripP horn is both snappy and punchy, and together the two 10" it uses cost less than most 12" with the same output potential.
Art
That is a very nice design. Would you draw it in see-through in an angle? I am having difficulties understanding the insides.
As I wrote before, I think Synergy horns are a compromise in regards to the amount of horn sizes and where to put them. I think a proper range of sizes of horns is more important than compactness, at least for my living room. Your horn is not very compact anyway. 😉
As I wrote before, I think Synergy horns are a compromise in regards to the amount of horn sizes and where to put them. I think a proper range of sizes of horns is more important than compactness, at least for my living room. Your horn is not very compact anyway. 😉
A folded Synergie horn like the old folded mid-bass horn with a square meter mouth and the cd driver above because the folded horn ?
Maybe a folded synergie will avoid more distance between the listener and the mouth of the synergie ? Or doest the direct sound is a part of the design (cd driver treble in front of the listener at the base of the synergie horn) ?
Maybe a folded synergie will avoid more distance between the listener and the mouth of the synergie ? Or doest the direct sound is a part of the design (cd driver treble in front of the listener at the base of the synergie horn) ?
No design in mind. I'm just asking if someone thinked to make a folded Synergie Horn like the old-mid-bass folded horn with CD driver where the apex is looking at the celling ! those old mid bass folded horn were often with a mouth of 1 square meter with their ugly CD driver just above it because of the length (wide) needed between the apex and the mouth!
Why because I find, for home use, most of us have less place in length or width. Btw many synergies design are wider (or some also like a square like some Danleys) than deeper. Exception to the mid-bas horn which are more deeper than width (like VolvoT. in him web site or some than Carpenter member makes also!)
So folded mid-bass : we know it already from a long time, but is it possible with synergie design (or a coax) with a folded design to minimize the foot print ? Or is it not possible by design (Synergies needs a direct horn expansion for its perfect beaming ?
Why because I find, for home use, most of us have less place in length or width. Btw many synergies design are wider (or some also like a square like some Danleys) than deeper. Exception to the mid-bas horn which are more deeper than width (like VolvoT. in him web site or some than Carpenter member makes also!)
So folded mid-bass : we know it already from a long time, but is it possible with synergie design (or a coax) with a folded design to minimize the foot print ? Or is it not possible by design (Synergies needs a direct horn expansion for its perfect beaming ?
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Horns will always take place. If you want the most horn experience per square meter, go for a regular midbass speaker design together with as large horn as you can fit with the compression driver. I think the synergy horn just saves place vertically. It will still be big if it is for midbass.
SPACE
Even that is a compromise, as almost every system is. I fully understand you mean that it took up less space. Using a compression driver in a large format round horn forces a crossover in the so-called intelligence band:
(300-3K Hz per Bell Labs) It's something I wish to avoid, but it does not bother
others to do so.
Also, horns sound best with other horns, and should be used, except for the deepest bass, where a HUGE bass reflex or infinite baffle works out better.
Just my 2 cents, & Happy Listening to all 🙂
Even that is a compromise, as almost every system is. I fully understand you mean that it took up less space. Using a compression driver in a large format round horn forces a crossover in the so-called intelligence band:
(300-3K Hz per Bell Labs) It's something I wish to avoid, but it does not bother
others to do so.
Also, horns sound best with other horns, and should be used, except for the deepest bass, where a HUGE bass reflex or infinite baffle works out better.
Just my 2 cents, & Happy Listening to all 🙂
If you can spare total 90cm width and 120cm depth per speaker you can get down to 70Hz hornloaded. 🙂
Just 10 more hertz !
I'd like to be able to get down to 60Hz, 55 would be even better 🙂
No problem with space. My problem is I am too lazy to learn the horn response program. Mine would be 2@ 12" Eminence Definimax 4012HO, offset, push-pull.
I'd like to be able to get down to 60Hz, 55 would be even better 🙂
No problem with space. My problem is I am too lazy to learn the horn response program. Mine would be 2@ 12" Eminence Definimax 4012HO, offset, push-pull.
Hello,
I will post here, same subject, different driver.
Currently i have OpenBaffle 3Way active. Bass- H frame 15" per side, Visaton BG20 8" mids and Philips tweeters.
I want a mid horn, first horn for me to build, and i want to use the existing Visaton BG20. Crossed at 150 and 1.2k. From there up, i have 2 drivers to play but that is a different topic. I know Visaton is crap compared to other speakers but for first time horn to experiment with i think it is OK. Or am i wasting time??
I made some simulations with Hornresp.
Please take a look and see if you can see any problem. The speaker input parameters are taken from Visaton site, Vtc and Atc is not exactly calculated yet, i entered some roughly values. I intend to build it conical, 4 sides. KISS.
Q: In group delay sim, if i will cross at 150 HP LR4, that spike in group delay will be a problem?
Q2: In acoustical impedance sim, does things look ok? What should i be after?
Q3: Phase response sim, should i be worried about that circled spikes? They are outside my intended usage.
Any other tips are appreciated,
Thank you!🙂
I will post here, same subject, different driver.
Currently i have OpenBaffle 3Way active. Bass- H frame 15" per side, Visaton BG20 8" mids and Philips tweeters.
I want a mid horn, first horn for me to build, and i want to use the existing Visaton BG20. Crossed at 150 and 1.2k. From there up, i have 2 drivers to play but that is a different topic. I know Visaton is crap compared to other speakers but for first time horn to experiment with i think it is OK. Or am i wasting time??
I made some simulations with Hornresp.
Please take a look and see if you can see any problem. The speaker input parameters are taken from Visaton site, Vtc and Atc is not exactly calculated yet, i entered some roughly values. I intend to build it conical, 4 sides. KISS.
Q: In group delay sim, if i will cross at 150 HP LR4, that spike in group delay will be a problem?
Q2: In acoustical impedance sim, does things look ok? What should i be after?
Q3: Phase response sim, should i be worried about that circled spikes? They are outside my intended usage.
Any other tips are appreciated,
Thank you!🙂
Attachments
I see i didn't enter Ap1 and Lpt values.
Also do you think i should choose 4xPi in first cell? The horns will sit on top of H frame woofers at 1m from the wall.
Also do you think i should choose 4xPi in first cell? The horns will sit on top of H frame woofers at 1m from the wall.
I am no expert at hornresp, but to me it does not look like a great horn. The acoustic power graph should be more flat. Have a look at this horn: 135 hz Mid Bass Horn - The Paper Horn by Inlow Sound
The Eminence Alpha has a rather low sensitivity of 94 dB, but it could work. Fs is around 70-80Hz and xmax is only 3mm, which is good. Hope you have a bass driver that can be driven up to 150-200Hz with clean midbass. I found that the Eminence LAB12 cannot. JBL 15" PA bass drivers were better.
The Eminence Alpha has a rather low sensitivity of 94 dB, but it could work. Fs is around 70-80Hz and xmax is only 3mm, which is good. Hope you have a bass driver that can be driven up to 150-200Hz with clean midbass. I found that the Eminence LAB12 cannot. JBL 15" PA bass drivers were better.
Thanks for confirmation.
For low mid-bass, I will look for something to play good the 100-300hz range ( a PA 15" driver), and from 300Hz up will model a horn for the 8" Alpha. The 100-300 is critical i noticed.
I have the Eminence Beta 15 in H frame, but as i see in their spec sheet, the Qts is way to high - 0.58. - to think of horn loading them.
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_15A.pdf
For low mid-bass, I will look for something to play good the 100-300hz range ( a PA 15" driver), and from 300Hz up will model a horn for the 8" Alpha. The 100-300 is critical i noticed.
I have the Eminence Beta 15 in H frame, but as i see in their spec sheet, the Qts is way to high - 0.58. - to think of horn loading them.
http://www.eminence.com/pdf/Beta_15A.pdf
I want quick response, so i thought that 40-120 will be a TH sub, 120-300 FL horn, 300 up FL horn and for the upper band i will see later. I had BR before and i don't like how it sounds.
For example the H frame woofer that i have now sounds very well but it is not so quick and punchy.
For example the H frame woofer that i have now sounds very well but it is not so quick and punchy.
" I had BR before and i don't like how it sounds. "
What kind of alignment did you choose?
The SBB4 has the best transient response of all the vented alignments.
When used with a high-pass filter matched to the cut-off of the box it will sound very 'fast'
My PPSL designs will change the way you think about reflex.
A PPSL midbass horn.
What kind of alignment did you choose?
The SBB4 has the best transient response of all the vented alignments.
When used with a high-pass filter matched to the cut-off of the box it will sound very 'fast'
My PPSL designs will change the way you think about reflex.
A PPSL midbass horn.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
Danley has four tapped horn models that are push-pull.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/251303-professional-subwoofer-9.html
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/251303-professional-subwoofer-9.html
djk: I am curious on the upper usable frequency on the example above With the front loaded fullrange? driver. Using 12". Will there be a cavity resonance similar to a push-push ripole configuration?
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