BV said:
It is wrong analogy. In my analogy people really complained that wheels do bump, while engineers kept saying that according to their measurements they should not.
And remember, music cause emotions. It works on a subtle level of perception. It is not enough to make errors barely audible consciously; they have to be way below thresholds of conscious perceptions, and even then there are differences in sound quality, because sub-consciously errors are still perceived, even though filtered out by conscious mind that protects us from an overwhelming amount of information they can't be recognized during listening tests.
janneman said:
They can't tell the difference between wheels, but they can tell the difference between ridings: one is pleasant and relaxing, another seems good but causes tiredness! 😉
So, they invent own language to describe pleasure of riding; the language may use engineering terms, but meanings of them are very different! 🙂
So, some inventive engineers design for them smooth-riding-helmets that cost $4,000 per meter, and suggest hypnotically that after 23 hours and 16.314 minutes of riding on sand trails break-in happens and ridding will start to be heavenly pleasant! 😀
Wavebourn said:
But of course. So do audio customers. "But that cable really messes up the cymbals, don't you hear that??" 😉
Wavebourn said:
You really found a very good analogy Anatoliy!
jd
janneman said:
"Yes I do! Let's try how my amp nicely conducts an air filled with pleasant sound of that nice cymbals!"
😀
I protest!!! I will call my lawyer!!! They must pay me royalties!!! 😀
Jan,
I can, but in absence of that mechanism the risk is drastically cut. I`d stay pretty confident.
Right, higher bandwidth gives, for instance, lower IMD.
Lumba Ogir said:
That is not correct in my view. IMD has to do with non-linearities in the amplfier, not with the bandwidth. In fact, if you increase the bandwidth at the expense of available loop gain for feedback, higher bandwidth gives higher IMD.
Can you explain your reasoning?
jd
You find 1MHz audio signal? 😉 It is nice picture, You have nice toys for measurement, but no sense for audio. What counts, is performance in audio band and impact of ultrasonic artefacts (with reasonable level,that can be expected in use) on audio band.
Low OLG vs. high OLG,
high bias vs. low bias,
mosfet vs.BJT
diesel vs. otto
blondes vs. brunettes.
etc.
These discussions never end!
It's actually worse, these who stand on a given side tend to mark their opinions with philosophical/sociological burden.
Having a technical opinion can bring you be both subjectivist and un-green for exammple.
My opinins are purely technical based, since I am too young to be interested in other aforementioned points of view:
- both high and low open loop gain with corresponding bandwidth have a great potential, and for a given design, the same amount of feedback at 20kHz is possible. It also seems that THD vs. frequency shape is of very high importance compared to the number itself.
- high bias sounds better, also always measures better if you measure at normal listening levels, not at just below clipping threshold. Optimum bias is a big misconception, you will see that if you measure THD at some 3-5V p-p. Attach the scope directly to outputs of the amp while listening, how often dfoes it go above 5V?
- bjt are simpler to use, if used properly both give great results
- otto cycle gives you more rise in torque with RPMs, which is more to one's intuition (others may dissagree)
- brunettes are technically superior, empirical result.
high bias vs. low bias,
mosfet vs.BJT
diesel vs. otto
blondes vs. brunettes.
etc.
These discussions never end!
It's actually worse, these who stand on a given side tend to mark their opinions with philosophical/sociological burden.
Having a technical opinion can bring you be both subjectivist and un-green for exammple.
My opinins are purely technical based, since I am too young to be interested in other aforementioned points of view:
- both high and low open loop gain with corresponding bandwidth have a great potential, and for a given design, the same amount of feedback at 20kHz is possible. It also seems that THD vs. frequency shape is of very high importance compared to the number itself.
- high bias sounds better, also always measures better if you measure at normal listening levels, not at just below clipping threshold. Optimum bias is a big misconception, you will see that if you measure THD at some 3-5V p-p. Attach the scope directly to outputs of the amp while listening, how often dfoes it go above 5V?
- bjt are simpler to use, if used properly both give great results
- otto cycle gives you more rise in torque with RPMs, which is more to one's intuition (others may dissagree)
- brunettes are technically superior, empirical result.
I think you are mixing up opinion, or taste, if you want, with technically verifiable facts. If someone says that high BW means less IMD, I would like to know why. If the answer is 'that's my opinion', fine, then I can disregard it.
If there is a verifiable technical reason for it, I will have learned something. So that's why I ask.
And yes, I like blondes 😉
jd
If there is a verifiable technical reason for it, I will have learned something. So that's why I ask.
And yes, I like blondes 😉
jd
For the reinvention of the whell: (great invention by the way)
Imagine that a competitor can align the wheels, so that while driving, the whole vehicle subtly swings left and right, so that a driver feels more relaxed (subconscious memories of the cradle or anything).
At the same time the competitor claims, that its their superior wheel design, that makes driving more relaxed and people start giving credit to the fable. What will you do?
Imagine that a competitor can align the wheels, so that while driving, the whole vehicle subtly swings left and right, so that a driver feels more relaxed (subconscious memories of the cradle or anything).
At the same time the competitor claims, that its their superior wheel design, that makes driving more relaxed and people start giving credit to the fable. What will you do?
darkfenriz said:
Hang a couple of acceleration sensors on the wheels and vehicle, measure, document, and let people chose the way they want. Easy.
jd
janneman said:
I am mixing technically verifiable facts with a dose of sarkasm and humour. You are certainly clever enough to extract those substrates.
If someone gives such an opinion without any reasoning or just using examples, like this amp is this and that and makes it that way, so the above is right, then you SHOULD disregard that.
BTW I would NOT say that "high BW means less IMD".
Too bad, not agreeing is more challenging intelectually and you seem to like it as much as I do...
stinius said:
Don't worry: wheels exactly like on your picture don't suffer from lack of financing.
