I do have other plan (at the present only theoretical,because waiting for Dirac Live stand alone beta version to arrive ),it could be extremely stupid plan,but it makes theoretical sense.
Traditional receipt for making active filers is the same like passive filters and it go like this:
measuring drivers - correcting drives response with filters - placing speakers in a our room - measuring again - making room correction filters to correct already make filter.
Idea to to drop that sequencing and because speakers already are placed in a room and it reacts to surrounding environment-do like this:
make divers correction filters with room correction software for each individual driver. Other correction for loudspeaker.
Is it same madness to such plan ?
Traditional receipt for making active filers is the same like passive filters and it go like this:
measuring drivers - correcting drives response with filters - placing speakers in a our room - measuring again - making room correction filters to correct already make filter.
Idea to to drop that sequencing and because speakers already are placed in a room and it reacts to surrounding environment-do like this:
make divers correction filters with room correction software for each individual driver. Other correction for loudspeaker.
Is it same madness to such plan ?
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I haven't used FIR, but the Grimm approach "sounds" very sound and sane to me! For EQ both can do the same, but for phase/GD correction FIR is the only possibility.
Setting basic EQ for each "way" first makes it easy to test different crossover points and slopes. It is very important to get symmetric acoustic slopes for both drivers when using LR-xo.
Any way, playing with dsp settings doesn't harm test animals or create environmental hazards! The most valuable thing with these experiments is learning to do, evaluate and re-adjust. The more mistakes one makes, the more (s)he will learn!
Setting basic EQ for each "way" first makes it easy to test different crossover points and slopes. It is very important to get symmetric acoustic slopes for both drivers when using LR-xo.
Any way, playing with dsp settings doesn't harm test animals or create environmental hazards! The most valuable thing with these experiments is learning to do, evaluate and re-adjust. The more mistakes one makes, the more (s)he will learn!
I believe you do not referring to expression in post #81 "Is it same madness to such plan " because, that post has nothing to do with Grimm approach. Post #81 is just an idea for Dirac Live software.
Otherwise, I couldn't agree with you more. You are absolutely wright, to explore and fine tune FIR and IIR filter combination it take more when one mans effort to deal with such huge amount of possibility's or even expertise form mathematics .
Ideal outcome would be, in a fellow ship,to develop step by step approach how to get best result with active filters.
Same kind of "guide for dummy's".
Thank you, cant be better described power and fuel of creative approach to the problems.
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Everything it is depending on particular situation like a room size .... music listening habits and such. All of us have different perception to sound ,smell and taste.
But would be fair answer to your question in general terms.
Lets say for your project your are going to use the same drivers like Lx mini`s just change woofer to Peerless SLS 8".....not talking about mechanical changes and taking only sound wise.. you will get more bass ,but would be "musical" bass not "boomy" bass. Actually full range driver doing main job. Choose the best possible driver for it and give a serious considerations about tweeter or two, keeping alive idea of dipole speaker,do job from 7-8 kHz
And for serious bass ...yes, you just have to have sub-woofer
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Thank you,
just have revisited "My conversations with Fitz" and couldn't find any where in that conversation about using 8" woofer in a pipe.
It was done a lot of explaining about Fitz loudspeaker design with 8" woofer in a wooden box and how bad and problematic such design approach is and only in the end of that article when Fitz again mentioned 8" woofer ...SL replayed:
"Yes, and when you are done, you need a stand for your woofer box to bring the tweeter to ear level height. That stand could do more than just holding up the box. It could provide additional air volume for a lower box resonance and thus less equalization to extend the low end."
I think ,subject of using 8" woofer in a pipe was avoided intentionally.
Or I missed in reading that article ?
Let not forget Seas specially developed L16RN-SL H1480 driver for Pluto project.
I don't think that the topic was avoided intentionally. S. Linkwitz wanted a smaller alternative to his LX521, hence a smaller driver.
Making a similar box with a larger bass is possible. I think the original xo point is at 700Hz, and the ScanSpeak wideband used there is good for ~300Hz (depends on many things, and not personally tried). Anyhow, this would make it a completely different box with a different size and crossover. And you really need to know what to do to mate a monopole bass to a dipole wideband.
Making a similar box with a larger bass is possible. I think the original xo point is at 700Hz, and the ScanSpeak wideband used there is good for ~300Hz (depends on many things, and not personally tried). Anyhow, this would make it a completely different box with a different size and crossover. And you really need to know what to do to mate a monopole bass to a dipole wideband.
SL entertained the prospect of a larger driver in the Pluto system many years ago. Suffice it to say, he was not interested.
If he had his druthers, the existing 5" woofer in the Pluto/LXmini would be made smaller, not larger, to promote a more omni pattern even higher in frequency. This was the whole reason the long-excursion L16 driver was produced by Seas.
Dave.
If he had his druthers, the existing 5" woofer in the Pluto/LXmini would be made smaller, not larger, to promote a more omni pattern even higher in frequency. This was the whole reason the long-excursion L16 driver was produced by Seas.
Dave.
SL entertained the prospect of a larger driver in the Pluto system many years ago. Suffice it to say, he was not interested.
If he had his druthers, the existing 5" woofer in the Pluto/LXmini would be made smaller, not larger, to promote a more omni pattern even higher in frequency. This was the whole reason the long-excursion L16 driver was produced by Seas.
Dave.
and him
Did you found this on SL home page or this is your own opinion Sebastian ?
I found that fascinating ,because have read similar thoughts ,but never have red as SL stated him self...
I do remember ,reading same where on his page ( I think) what Lx521 means and sequence of projects.... Orion (2002) and Pluto (2005).
To my mind ,would be logical to say Lx mini is evolution form Pluto.
Like Lx521 evolution from Orion .
SL entertained the prospect of a larger driver in the Pluto system many years ago. Suffice it to say, he was not interested.
If he had his druthers, the existing 5" woofer in the Pluto/LXmini would be made smaller, not larger, to promote a more omni pattern even higher in frequency. This was the whole reason the long-excursion L16 driver was produced by Seas.
Dave.
That makes perfect sense..pooching limit of what you have to work with.
Like internal combustion engine for formula1
Doesn't omni pattern be more pronounced with multiple drivers working together ....
Long excursion L16 driver did extend low frequency didn't ?
I think I've read that, but it's from my memory, I could be wrong. Yes, LXmini came after LX521 and is an evolution of Pluto.If you can find why the 700Hz crossover was chosen, let us please know.
Sadly, we may now not ask Linkwitz himself anymore.
The multi-driver objective here is omni/cardioid/dipole.
And no, both versions of the Pluto were designed with a 60Hz cutoff at second-order.
Dave.
If you can find why the 700Hz crossover was chosen, let us please know.
Sadly, we may now not ask Linkwitz himself anymore.
I do know Pluto have xo at 800 Hz...
And this about xo 700 Hz:
"The spectrum between 50 Hz and 10 kHz is evenly divided on an octave basis by a 700 Hz crossover. Having 5 dB to 10 dB less peak signal capability for the upper frequency range is of some concern to me. Putting 10 dB of gain between DSP and power amplifier would make full use of the amplifier's capability and raise the noise floor, which is of little concern. But after many hours of listening to the LXmini I have only run into the expected woofer driver excursion limitation. So I am happy. The drivers are the limiting elements and not the electronics."
The multi-driver objective here is omni/cardioid/dipole.
And no, both versions of the Pluto were designed with a 60Hz cutoff at second-order.
Dave.
I don't know much about Pluto design ,but I have original LX mini filter settings...it did boasted 50 hz...
Dear,Dave would you expend a bit more on subject ...omni/cardioid/dipole....
honestly it is interesting subject to discuss it.
B&O did used multiple drivers to have dipole/ loudspeaker
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