Check out a multi driver slot loaded open baffle (SLOB) 2 or 3 way like this one. Should be good with all genres of music. The simple cardboard proof of concept that I built sounded great with all my music. Use a high sensitivity high power pro audio full range (PRV 5MR450NDY) on top for high SPL via 95dB sensitive 225w RMS driver, and punchy bass via slot loaded dipole on bottom, all in compact base floor stander. If you use qnty 4 x 8in 88dB woofers for the slot loading you can get 94dB bass and add +2dB (according to Nelson Pass article on SLOB here: http://www.enjoythemusic.com/diy/0911/slot_loaded_open_baffle_speaker.htm) at close distance for slot loading.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/252593-novel-open-baffle-construction-techniques.html
More info on my PRV 5MR450NDY SLOB here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/259293-prv-5mr450-ndy-fast-applications-2.html#post3995448
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Thanks man !
Can I use this guide here ?
Prototyping a 4-way open-baffle speaker with the miniDSP 2×4
EDIT:
1.Can I use a fullrange driver for mids (300 to 6000 hz) ?
2. And since its gonna create less SPL than a "boxed" or any other design, do I have to get two or more drivers for mids and highs ?
3. Since I cannot use my current amp (Yamaha A S500) if its an active crossover design, should I sell it ?
OR
Is it possible to make it just a 2 way, say 400 hz and below to woofer section (Dayton 250W plate amp) and the rest (400 hz to 20khz) to my AS500 ?
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Keep your Yamaha - always nice to have more amps handy. You can even use that as your main amp if you stick with a two-way or FAST design like I suggested above with the SLOB and PRV.
If you want to play around with active DSP EQ to get a sense of if you like it before buying a miniDSP for $110 (shipping and plugin), there is a trick to do a 2-way active DSP XO and EQ for free - in mono. Use a program like Jriver and use left for highs and right for bass and apply the XO to left vs right channels. Mix the left and right channels to mono first then replay mono over both left and right before applying high pass on left and low pass on right. You will quickly see the power of a DSP XO in that you can dial in the free and slope on the fly and hear how it sounds. Use this to establish the design for a passive should you want to go that way. More details here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/261506-using-stereo-sound-card-create-mono-2-way-active-crossover.html
Regarding using full range for mids - yes they work great as mids. What kind of SPL are you trying to match with the bass and the tweeter? A Faital Pro 3FE22 is an excellent mid with 91dB sensitivity. The Vifa TC9FD and Dayton RS100-4 are also excellent with circa 85dB sensitivity. Do not use multiple units above 600Hz as you will get frequency comb (vertical lobing and spectral lobing). If you are looking for PA SPL levels then you need a pro audio mid range and if you XO to pro compression driver and horn you should be set but now you are far far away from being a full range system and best to follow a design in multiway forum.
I still stick with my recommendation for the 5MR450NDY with a 350Hz XO for the top and several larger woofers on the bottom level match 95dB sensitivity. If you go with a SLOB dipole for the bass using say 4 x 8in woofers or 6x 8in woofers as Mr Pass did, you should be able to have very articulate, tight, clean bass to go with the top. Qnty 2 x 15in woofers in a SLOB also could work well - you may need to XO lower at 270Hz in that case as the depth of the slot for a 15in woofer may have a cancellation null higher up.
With the 5MR450NDY high passed at 24dB/octave at 270Hz per the factory recommendation for max power, you can handle 450watts of music program power. 450 watts is about +25dB above 1 watt at 95dB or 120dB music program power handling and 117dB continuous thermal RMS. Should be loud enough for you as a full range. Now the trick to keeping up with that in the bass is tougher. You will need lots of power and at least a pair of pro audio 15in drivers in some sort of box that controls cone motion. Maybe back to sealed box with some TC Sounds 15 in long stroke woofers and 2kW of amp power from rack mounts.
If you want to play around with active DSP EQ to get a sense of if you like it before buying a miniDSP for $110 (shipping and plugin), there is a trick to do a 2-way active DSP XO and EQ for free - in mono. Use a program like Jriver and use left for highs and right for bass and apply the XO to left vs right channels. Mix the left and right channels to mono first then replay mono over both left and right before applying high pass on left and low pass on right. You will quickly see the power of a DSP XO in that you can dial in the free and slope on the fly and hear how it sounds. Use this to establish the design for a passive should you want to go that way. More details here: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/261506-using-stereo-sound-card-create-mono-2-way-active-crossover.html
Regarding using full range for mids - yes they work great as mids. What kind of SPL are you trying to match with the bass and the tweeter? A Faital Pro 3FE22 is an excellent mid with 91dB sensitivity. The Vifa TC9FD and Dayton RS100-4 are also excellent with circa 85dB sensitivity. Do not use multiple units above 600Hz as you will get frequency comb (vertical lobing and spectral lobing). If you are looking for PA SPL levels then you need a pro audio mid range and if you XO to pro compression driver and horn you should be set but now you are far far away from being a full range system and best to follow a design in multiway forum.
I still stick with my recommendation for the 5MR450NDY with a 350Hz XO for the top and several larger woofers on the bottom level match 95dB sensitivity. If you go with a SLOB dipole for the bass using say 4 x 8in woofers or 6x 8in woofers as Mr Pass did, you should be able to have very articulate, tight, clean bass to go with the top. Qnty 2 x 15in woofers in a SLOB also could work well - you may need to XO lower at 270Hz in that case as the depth of the slot for a 15in woofer may have a cancellation null higher up.
With the 5MR450NDY high passed at 24dB/octave at 270Hz per the factory recommendation for max power, you can handle 450watts of music program power. 450 watts is about +25dB above 1 watt at 95dB or 120dB music program power handling and 117dB continuous thermal RMS. Should be loud enough for you as a full range. Now the trick to keeping up with that in the bass is tougher. You will need lots of power and at least a pair of pro audio 15in drivers in some sort of box that controls cone motion. Maybe back to sealed box with some TC Sounds 15 in long stroke woofers and 2kW of amp power from rack mounts.
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Thanks for the reply xrk971 !
And now....
1. If I go Mr Pass's SLOB's, it means I have to get 12 nos of 8" Woofers. And if I go for the drivers from the likes of Dayton and Fountek, its gonna cost me..a lot. There are other drivers like this "Dainty 8 PF0820B" which are cheap but I'm unsure about its manufacturing quality and stuff.
Another plan for open baffles - Page 3
Also, is there any critera for selecting the drivers ?
Qts >0.5, Xmax>4 etc ?
2. In that thread at hifivision.com, there is this guy saying open baffle is a complete waste of money compared to transmissionline speakers.
Another plan for open baffles - Page 3
And now I'm shaken !
I know you people have listened to both types of systems and would like to hear your impressions.
3. What about tweeters ?
That PRV driver can go till 15khz. But, what about 15 to 20Khz ?
What would be the criteria for selecting a super tweeter or..is it really needed ?
Thanks for reading !
EDIT:
OT !!
I was playing around with different positions for Magnat Monitor Supreme 1000s and when I place them just 6 cm from the wall, I'm getting that chest thumping bass I always wanted ! The difference is huge .
Now the drums are not "dhuum" but "tttum" 😀
And now....
1. If I go Mr Pass's SLOB's, it means I have to get 12 nos of 8" Woofers. And if I go for the drivers from the likes of Dayton and Fountek, its gonna cost me..a lot. There are other drivers like this "Dainty 8 PF0820B" which are cheap but I'm unsure about its manufacturing quality and stuff.
Another plan for open baffles - Page 3
Also, is there any critera for selecting the drivers ?
Qts >0.5, Xmax>4 etc ?
2. In that thread at hifivision.com, there is this guy saying open baffle is a complete waste of money compared to transmissionline speakers.
Another plan for open baffles - Page 3
And now I'm shaken !
I know you people have listened to both types of systems and would like to hear your impressions.
3. What about tweeters ?
That PRV driver can go till 15khz. But, what about 15 to 20Khz ?
What would be the criteria for selecting a super tweeter or..is it really needed ?
Thanks for reading !
EDIT:
OT !!
I was playing around with different positions for Magnat Monitor Supreme 1000s and when I place them just 6 cm from the wall, I'm getting that chest thumping bass I always wanted ! The difference is huge .
Now the drums are not "dhuum" but "tttum" 😀
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Do you have any spare drivers on hand?
Or any unused speakers around, in which you can take the drivers for experiment?
Or any unused speakers around, in which you can take the drivers for experiment?
Pick these up before they are gone. 5mm xmax and 88dB sensitivity isn't bad.
WFR800GS 8" Poly Cone Rubber Surround Woofer 8 Ohm
Cheap drivers actually work very well for SLOB bass - you only need it to work from 40Hz to 400Hz. With 6 drivers cone motion is reduced so distortion isn't an issue unless playing loud. I used cheap $5 x 6.5in woofers and they sounded quite good.
WFR800GS 8" Poly Cone Rubber Surround Woofer 8 Ohm
Cheap drivers actually work very well for SLOB bass - you only need it to work from 40Hz to 400Hz. With 6 drivers cone motion is reduced so distortion isn't an issue unless playing loud. I used cheap $5 x 6.5in woofers and they sounded quite good.
Can't purchase it, my debit card won't work with international sellers !
Also, our customs people are PITA...and so are the shipping companies. The risk is too great for me.
BTW, what about that Peerless woofer ?
EDIT:
This is the one !
http://diyaudiocart.com/Raw-Drivers/Woofer/Peerless-8-Inch-Coated-Paper-Cone-Woofer-S20NI
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Qts is quite low, and there's no info of Xmax.
If the choice has to be limited in that store, I'd pick Dayton classic 10" or 12".
If the choice has to be limited in that store, I'd pick Dayton classic 10" or 12".
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Bigger is better, more is better.
I'd suggest starting by at least 2 per side = 4 in total first.
You can't have too much cone area for OB bass.
I'd suggest starting by at least 2 per side = 4 in total first.
You can't have too much cone area for OB bass.
Fountek FW300B 12" Sub Woofer
They might no be the cheapest driver available, but they seems perfect for OB, and especially slot loaded OB. A low Qms is nice since it will limit driver over-excursion below Fs better then high Qms - low Rms drivers.
regards,
Johannes
They might no be the cheapest driver available, but they seems perfect for OB, and especially slot loaded OB. A low Qms is nice since it will limit driver over-excursion below Fs better then high Qms - low Rms drivers.
regards,
Johannes
Thanks man🙂
How did you came to know its a good driver ?
Just wanted to know !!🙂
BUT, its gonna cost me dearly coz I'm in the middle of making the biggest decision of my life and I might need to save everything I can for later.
I'll be checking out our local electronics store tomorrow to see if I can score some cheap deals there. I know its not gonna be good but such is life 🙁
Fostex FF105WK bassreflex
I just finished my kit.
I enjoyed building very much.
The most time I spend by searching how to install damping inside. Picture should help me.
Sound is Excellent and natural. I was listen with open mouth. It plays 3D. The space is the best I heard. As there are no speakers-just music in the air. The bass is less, but is there some! Who needs more, so must use subwoofer. I have old active Creative subwoofer with integrated amp 2x8 watt. So I connected it. I can now mute subwoofer as I need and I do it so. Some old metal songs need more bass, so I just volume up the subwoofer. Warning - this speaker is directional. Off axe I miss trebles. The best is, when center of speaker is in height of my ears. So I will add stand. Super is, that speakers play music at ultra low volumes still perfect. It is very important, because I have them in office to O2DAC. I love it.
I will add some photos.
I just finished my kit.
I enjoyed building very much.
The most time I spend by searching how to install damping inside. Picture should help me.
Sound is Excellent and natural. I was listen with open mouth. It plays 3D. The space is the best I heard. As there are no speakers-just music in the air. The bass is less, but is there some! Who needs more, so must use subwoofer. I have old active Creative subwoofer with integrated amp 2x8 watt. So I connected it. I can now mute subwoofer as I need and I do it so. Some old metal songs need more bass, so I just volume up the subwoofer. Warning - this speaker is directional. Off axe I miss trebles. The best is, when center of speaker is in height of my ears. So I will add stand. Super is, that speakers play music at ultra low volumes still perfect. It is very important, because I have them in office to O2DAC. I love it.
I will add some photos.
actually, although the stamped frames will be the same shape (maybe different paint) the WK series sound nothing like the FE series
IMO the FF series are kind of the stripped down super car (or the nova with a corvette engine?), and closer to the sigmas/FX/FxxxA drivers in signal quality than the FE's.
An interesting thing about the old Japanese made FFxx5K series was that they had these crazy ridiculously robust stamped frames that were twice as thick as the FExxx frames.
An interesting thing about the old Japanese made FFxx5K series was that they had these crazy ridiculously robust stamped frames that were twice as thick as the FExxx frames.
>>> Like a FE103 with a hard nipple!
I like hard nipples.
I like the lesser expensive Fostex drivers. The 127e is rather simple in design but sounds good and is very versatile. The 165k is a great driver too, imo. The newer grey colored drivers all look good to me.
I like hard nipples.
I like the lesser expensive Fostex drivers. The 127e is rather simple in design but sounds good and is very versatile. The 165k is a great driver too, imo. The newer grey colored drivers all look good to me.
I just got some FF105WK's and they have a zinger of a 10dB narrow peak at 7.5kHz. The IR really has some ringing as a result. Sounds much better way off axis but on axis is kind of brutal. A nice looking and well built driver though.
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