hi guys
Ill measure the box - cabinet thickness.
Im still not sure what it is I need to replace and with what.
Would it be possible to refer to my scribblings and say the white "box" no ref. X needs to be replaced with a "Dibby dobby" etc.
Sorry for being dim and I really appreciate you guys patience and time.
My budget is probably £100 - £150 at a push and Im pretty keen to retain the S4s where practical but if a noobie like me runs the risk of screwing the whole thing then mmmmmmm.
I have a soldering iron already and can solder and have basic cabinet alteration skills (ish)
cheers
Ill measure the box - cabinet thickness.
Im still not sure what it is I need to replace and with what.
Would it be possible to refer to my scribblings and say the white "box" no ref. X needs to be replaced with a "Dibby dobby" etc.
Sorry for being dim and I really appreciate you guys patience and time.
My budget is probably £100 - £150 at a push and Im pretty keen to retain the S4s where practical but if a noobie like me runs the risk of screwing the whole thing then mmmmmmm.
I have a soldering iron already and can solder and have basic cabinet alteration skills (ish)
cheers
Hey,
So obviously the woofers would get changed out and the alterations to the crossover could be crouched in "remove white square thingy next to yellow wrapped coil" type language.
Some of the woofers I looked at would eat your whole budget just for one. The Seas unit I suggested is a good price and the replacement crossover bits should just be a few £. Some of these parts are, I think, right off the end of the "stupid" price scale. As I said, if this project costs too much or gets too complicated you'd be better off just getting some other used speakers.
We'll see what Steve says.
Whilst you're measuring, don't forget to do the woofer hole and it's rebate.
So obviously the woofers would get changed out and the alterations to the crossover could be crouched in "remove white square thingy next to yellow wrapped coil" type language.
Some of the woofers I looked at would eat your whole budget just for one. The Seas unit I suggested is a good price and the replacement crossover bits should just be a few £. Some of these parts are, I think, right off the end of the "stupid" price scale. As I said, if this project costs too much or gets too complicated you'd be better off just getting some other used speakers.
We'll see what Steve says.
Whilst you're measuring, don't forget to do the woofer hole and it's rebate.
IMO, Scotland's finest band were "The Blue Nile"! I love them.
But no-ones ever heard of them.
In Search Of The Blue Nile by RTE Radio 1 | Free Listening on SoundCloud
I wouldn't worry about the cabinet too much. It's 30L of closed box. End of.
In theory you should use about 60L with an 8", but who wants that sort of huge lump in their living room, here being bassier reflex:
A similar WLM La Scala idea: 6moons audio reviews: WLM La Scala
This is a pretty similar 30L closed box effort I knocked up today:
AFAIK, Falcon do free shipping to anywhere in the UK bar Rockall and Shetland. Honestly, I'd just get these bargain SEAS woofers for about £84 and be done with it.
Seas P21RE/P H0942-08 Woofer. H0313 2015 remake
These are a giveaway. Solid chassis, phase plugs. Maybe a slight weakness on aluminium formers. But not a show-stopper. We can fix any tonal problems for a few quid. Trust me.
FWIW, some of our members have had a good time with this replacement driver:
I have kept the images deliberately small, because the originals were unnecessarily huge.
But no-ones ever heard of them.
In Search Of The Blue Nile by RTE Radio 1 | Free Listening on SoundCloud
I wouldn't worry about the cabinet too much. It's 30L of closed box. End of.
In theory you should use about 60L with an 8", but who wants that sort of huge lump in their living room, here being bassier reflex:
A similar WLM La Scala idea: 6moons audio reviews: WLM La Scala
This is a pretty similar 30L closed box effort I knocked up today:
AFAIK, Falcon do free shipping to anywhere in the UK bar Rockall and Shetland. Honestly, I'd just get these bargain SEAS woofers for about £84 and be done with it.
Seas P21RE/P H0942-08 Woofer. H0313 2015 remake
These are a giveaway. Solid chassis, phase plugs. Maybe a slight weakness on aluminium formers. But not a show-stopper. We can fix any tonal problems for a few quid. Trust me.
FWIW, some of our members have had a good time with this replacement driver:
I have kept the images deliberately small, because the originals were unnecessarily huge.
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My father loved Peggy Lee but I'm a Julie London man myself.
You're right, I've never heard of the The Blue Nile.
Have you heard of Chvrches? Yeah, they spell it that way. Love them.
In my digging around, I realized that the commonly available, terrible scan of the HD20B25 is for the 2 layer voice coil not the 4 layer. The Tabor was the 4 layer. I spent over an hour trying to find something on the internet. Failure. At this point with the surrounds failing it's not like it's necessary for new designs but it might be useful for finding good replacements. It probably is more important for vented boxes. I'll email Falcon at some point and see if Jerry has it somewhere. They should, they designed the Tabor.
The most important measurements are the woofer hole and rebate to make sure a replacement will fit. The Seas unit will be fine in the S4 box but the other measurements are easy and are important for posterity.
You're right, I've never heard of the The Blue Nile.
Have you heard of Chvrches? Yeah, they spell it that way. Love them.
In my digging around, I realized that the commonly available, terrible scan of the HD20B25 is for the 2 layer voice coil not the 4 layer. The Tabor was the 4 layer. I spent over an hour trying to find something on the internet. Failure. At this point with the surrounds failing it's not like it's necessary for new designs but it might be useful for finding good replacements. It probably is more important for vented boxes. I'll email Falcon at some point and see if Jerry has it somewhere. They should, they designed the Tabor.
The most important measurements are the woofer hole and rebate to make sure a replacement will fit. The Seas unit will be fine in the S4 box but the other measurements are easy and are important for posterity.
IDK, Chris. I think you're making it more difficult than it is!
This is all you are trying to do with most replacement drivers:
I know Bextrene needs more work than most drivers, but most others of them are extremely easy to filter. SEAS make some gems in the well-behaved paper and nextel and polycone category of 8".
WOOFERS
Most of them would work well enough on the simplest of filters:
A huge number of free crossovers if you want something bespoke:
SEAS Brand Archives - Madisound Speaker PDF Library
We have done the due diligence here and established the Lentek S4 crossover is fairly flat in response. Sure, you don't know till you try it, but I don't think there will be much to adjust.
This is all you are trying to do with most replacement drivers:
I know Bextrene needs more work than most drivers, but most others of them are extremely easy to filter. SEAS make some gems in the well-behaved paper and nextel and polycone category of 8".
WOOFERS
Most of them would work well enough on the simplest of filters:
A huge number of free crossovers if you want something bespoke:
SEAS Brand Archives - Madisound Speaker PDF Library
We have done the due diligence here and established the Lentek S4 crossover is fairly flat in response. Sure, you don't know till you try it, but I don't think there will be much to adjust.
Okay guys so. I'm out tonight Valentines day and all that.
I'll measure the cabinets once the holes and rebates etc. And post. I will go for the Seas drivers once I can check they will fit. So just waiting to see if there are any replacement bits needed for the cross over's.
The Blue Nile are indeed a fine band from Glasgow. I would. Chvrches also good newer band. The Blue Nile were big in 90s. Paul Buchanans voice is up there with another of Scotland's sons Billy Mackenzie who was the singer in the band the Associates, sadly no longer with us. If you are into production give the Blue Nile a listen they were linked to Linn Records of Linn fame.
I'll measure the cabinets once the holes and rebates etc. And post. I will go for the Seas drivers once I can check they will fit. So just waiting to see if there are any replacement bits needed for the cross over's.
The Blue Nile are indeed a fine band from Glasgow. I would. Chvrches also good newer band. The Blue Nile were big in 90s. Paul Buchanans voice is up there with another of Scotland's sons Billy Mackenzie who was the singer in the band the Associates, sadly no longer with us. If you are into production give the Blue Nile a listen they were linked to Linn Records of Linn fame.
I've been looking for a CD copy of Hats by The Blue Nile for years in the second hand stores. No one is getting rid of it!
I think there is a good chance everything will work first time with the new woofers. If anything, the tweeter will sound quieter, and that's never offensive.
Me, I'd redesign the crossover, but that's just me. I have a huge box of bits and a fine drill bit to make new holes in a crossover board to fit them. And I have a good ear for a couple of dB excess loudness or quietness. Usually just use a favourite and familiar recording.
But really, I'd just see how it goes for now. Nothing will break.
I think there is a good chance everything will work first time with the new woofers. If anything, the tweeter will sound quieter, and that's never offensive.
Me, I'd redesign the crossover, but that's just me. I have a huge box of bits and a fine drill bit to make new holes in a crossover board to fit them. And I have a good ear for a couple of dB excess loudness or quietness. Usually just use a favourite and familiar recording.
But really, I'd just see how it goes for now. Nothing will break.
Technically, no. It isn't "speaker magic" or anything. It will work without it.
It was just acting as a stiffener. I've seen some things like that before, just not that plain. It kind of depends on how thick the panels are. If they're 10-12mm, a back panel stiffener would be good. If they're 18-19mm then no not really.
If you do have the thinner panels it would be easier to install a more conventional brace like the one in the plan below which is the enclosure for the Tabor I'm always on about. It's also almost exactly the same as the Lentek S5. The circular hole below the woofer hole is for the port which S4's didn't have but S5's did.
It was just acting as a stiffener. I've seen some things like that before, just not that plain. It kind of depends on how thick the panels are. If they're 10-12mm, a back panel stiffener would be good. If they're 18-19mm then no not really.
If you do have the thinner panels it would be easier to install a more conventional brace like the one in the plan below which is the enclosure for the Tabor I'm always on about. It's also almost exactly the same as the Lentek S5. The circular hole below the woofer hole is for the port which S4's didn't have but S5's did.
Attachments
Yup, I'd skip the wooden brace on the magnet to the back panel. It's probably what got the drivers into trouble in the first place, breaking off the magnet.
Anyway, the new SEAS have a cast chassis so should be fairly inert. I'd just screw them to the front panel where the timber is thickest. Don't know if you need a gasket, but those can be made from cardboard.
Cabinet bracing is more complicated than you might think.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/223174-read-found-lossy-cabinet-designs-harbeth.html#post3234256
The BBC idea was light and rigid cabinets with damping panels stuck to the top, bottom and sides.
Then with closed box, you stuff the whole cabinet with something like a pillow to damp standing waves. Battens are only used sparingly for strength, particularly on the front and back panels.
Enough. Stubbs04, me ol' china, I couldn't possibly take your copy of Hats off you! I'd have no incentive to look round the second-hand store for it, or St. Dominic's Preview by Van Morrison. Got "Eat to the Beat" today by Blondie, and it still sounds good.
Anyway, the new SEAS have a cast chassis so should be fairly inert. I'd just screw them to the front panel where the timber is thickest. Don't know if you need a gasket, but those can be made from cardboard.
Cabinet bracing is more complicated than you might think.
https://www.diyaudio.com/forums/multi-way/223174-read-found-lossy-cabinet-designs-harbeth.html#post3234256
The BBC idea was light and rigid cabinets with damping panels stuck to the top, bottom and sides.
Then with closed box, you stuff the whole cabinet with something like a pillow to damp standing waves. Battens are only used sparingly for strength, particularly on the front and back panels.
Enough. Stubbs04, me ol' china, I couldn't possibly take your copy of Hats off you! I'd have no incentive to look round the second-hand store for it, or St. Dominic's Preview by Van Morrison. Got "Eat to the Beat" today by Blondie, and it still sounds good.
Playing something bass heavy like Reggae and use your balance control to go back and forth to see if it's the same in both channels. If it's OK when full left or full right but light in the middle it could be that one woofer is wired plus to minus. If just one is light, it's probably a leak.
New woofers woof better once run for a while but if it's really light, it's probably a wiring error or leakage.
New woofers woof better once run for a while but if it's really light, it's probably a wiring error or leakage.
Pan left then right both speakers very weak bass. In the middle same weak bass. Could it be leakage in both? I sealed all round new driver before placing on baffle, checked all foam. Checked that baffle is tight. Breaking them in; they would have to change pretty drastically to improve.
Is it a cross over thing?
I've checked wires and it is all red to red correctly wired.
Is it a cross over thing?
I've checked wires and it is all red to red correctly wired.