danielwritesbac said:
The "compression artifacts" that block "some of the ambients of the recording" are a result of the compression of the recording! A capacitor used to block DC in the NFB loop of an amplifier does not perform dynamic range compression on the signal.
danielwritesbac said:
Right there is the problem. Heavily compressed music (i.e. pop music) will sound compressed no matter what amplifier you use!
danielwritesbac said:
As Bruno Putzey's noted in a lecture of his, the definition of transparency to most professionals means "no audible difference between in and out".
BWRX said:
That's why I mention the notion of using the power amplifier module for transparency-only. And, then use the bandaxall preamplifier for personal preferences on frequency response for popular music. Its so much easier that way and there's some great fun to be had with a preamplifier.
As far as the other topics, simply put, one wouldn't want to make a component selection that worsens the quality of popular music recordings. The prosound term is compression artifact. What is the equivilent term?
Isn't it true that some amplifiers have a more dynamic rendering than others? Now I'm confused.
I'm agree with everybody.
they're sounds a same to me. transparency.
we're expecting for the same result. i think friends in 'vacuum' or people who pay a lot for 'honest' driver either.
I'm still in technically approaching. there must be a best setting to present the transparency for my limited audio system.
i'm a non experienced realy taking all advantage when experienced like you guys, meet at this forum =) cheers.
so far my achievement is getting nicer, i loved to get more nice hearing. maybe will early dead when i just get enough. i always compare the result with my commercial stereoset or my friend's high-end at last, with some primitive test, such check the vocal or instrument details,and the band composition, or feel the soul contain, warm or fresh ( thts deep bro ) maybe i will record my own voice or music to check the transparency, but it will depend on the instrument i'll use,such microphone.haha.
is there any exact standard?
taste
one good audio system will perfectly shows transparency when play mainstream jazz, or less instrument musics, but hows when play technos? good.. but flat. i will add some kicking adjustment to live the music.
an optional may needed for a bad recording, to have more realistic music. thats taste. i'm a person who wishing 70's art rock bands such ELP, RUSH, YES, THE DOORS recorded in todays recording system and wider bandwidh without leaving their 70's sign.i like the edgar winter's for comparison. they're great in skills. maybe impossible, a tone control or a sound processor be a little curing cheat.
tastes may vary, and able to change. i'm infiltrated, i was playing in a band, guitar and percussions. and there are more SPL people than SQ people in my neighborhood but KISS people also exist.
they're sounds a same to me. transparency.
we're expecting for the same result. i think friends in 'vacuum' or people who pay a lot for 'honest' driver either.
I'm still in technically approaching. there must be a best setting to present the transparency for my limited audio system.
i'm a non experienced realy taking all advantage when experienced like you guys, meet at this forum =) cheers.
so far my achievement is getting nicer, i loved to get more nice hearing. maybe will early dead when i just get enough. i always compare the result with my commercial stereoset or my friend's high-end at last, with some primitive test, such check the vocal or instrument details,and the band composition, or feel the soul contain, warm or fresh ( thts deep bro ) maybe i will record my own voice or music to check the transparency, but it will depend on the instrument i'll use,such microphone.haha.
is there any exact standard?
taste
one good audio system will perfectly shows transparency when play mainstream jazz, or less instrument musics, but hows when play technos? good.. but flat. i will add some kicking adjustment to live the music.
an optional may needed for a bad recording, to have more realistic music. thats taste. i'm a person who wishing 70's art rock bands such ELP, RUSH, YES, THE DOORS recorded in todays recording system and wider bandwidh without leaving their 70's sign.i like the edgar winter's for comparison. they're great in skills. maybe impossible, a tone control or a sound processor be a little curing cheat.
tastes may vary, and able to change. i'm infiltrated, i was playing in a band, guitar and percussions. and there are more SPL people than SQ people in my neighborhood but KISS people also exist.
AndrewT said:
Hi Andrew! I probably need writing lessons too. So, could you just pick out the worst, and get really specific/constructive?
That would be great!
Hey, just last week, we were all like in agreement over transformer sizing.
On the current topic, well, just bear in mind that I believe some amplifiers to be more dynamic and open than others, that it can be caused, and that it helps better support popular music.
eketehe said:
The phrase is "knowing when to stop" and that point is reached when your current efforts have exceeded (better than) your previous efforts.
Next, you start a new amplifier and make it better.
I'm saying that's why you should finish up the current project. . . because it makes a great competition (comparision point reference) for the next project.
eketehe said:
A bandaxall (bass-n-treble knobs) preamplifier or equalizer is very different from a sound processor.
The bass-n-treble preamplifier, or eq, will adjust frequency response without much harm to ambient environment on the recording. These can be used on the amplifier. Its especially nice to make your own so you can choose the frequencies for boost. . . matching up with your speakers nicely.
A sound processor will remove, block, or mask the ambient environment from the recording and substitute a fake. These can be used for recording/remastering (make a new CD), as in a repair job. It is fake and limited in variety, so a sound processor shouldn't be attached to a home hi-fi. Example: A sound processor is great at a concert or studio, but could become a boring noise if used at home--because it will limit variety.
Anyway, I think those two things are quite different.
Hey, have fun making the preamps!
got it!
you're great, thats realy works for transparency.
i put some more mods for my rebuilt portable amp.
1uF ceramic replace the 2.2+0.1uF, 8K2 /150K at NFB, 3R3 at zobel, runs on 22.4 VDC, with few mods at 2ways speaker crossover network. ( the small 2ways replaced by other 2ways with 6' midwoofer, my friend took em' for monitor ).
i already have a pre-amp ( TL074 ) consider to replace with the new arrival here : LM4562. still looking for more info.
it may be not use offently. you know, with the more transparan sounds. i think i take more appriciate with the original records, they're just naturaly good. ( i'm always changing, depends on the settings
)
still works on your portable project?
i'm break other IC. heat problem at 34VDC when play the amp realy loud for test ( over than 3/4 of 50K pot ) its broken for about 30 minutes play. i was in a crazy test, i'was impresed with this small chip power efficiency, so i test the amp to drive a pair of friend's 2ways 18' SPL kind for stage speakers.
the heat can not quick delivered/spared to heatsink due to micas usage, even when it lubricated.
we need a strong and close blower fan,which i was not use it.
or take off the micas ( only lubricant), and isolate the heatsink from grounded things, 1 piece for mono.but thts only easy if the body made from plastic like mine.
they're good in other 'loud' tests.
even I never plays at such crazy loud for daily use, i choose to turn down the voltage to only 22.4VDC with micas as insulator+lubricant, for safety and hope durability.
it produce OK sounds either. i don't know if its also related with the LM series number ( the broken was 1875GY the new one is 1875AL ).
you're great, thats realy works for transparency.
i put some more mods for my rebuilt portable amp.
1uF ceramic replace the 2.2+0.1uF, 8K2 /150K at NFB, 3R3 at zobel, runs on 22.4 VDC, with few mods at 2ways speaker crossover network. ( the small 2ways replaced by other 2ways with 6' midwoofer, my friend took em' for monitor ).
i already have a pre-amp ( TL074 ) consider to replace with the new arrival here : LM4562. still looking for more info.
it may be not use offently. you know, with the more transparan sounds. i think i take more appriciate with the original records, they're just naturaly good. ( i'm always changing, depends on the settings
) still works on your portable project?
i'm break other IC. heat problem at 34VDC when play the amp realy loud for test ( over than 3/4 of 50K pot ) its broken for about 30 minutes play. i was in a crazy test, i'was impresed with this small chip power efficiency, so i test the amp to drive a pair of friend's 2ways 18' SPL kind for stage speakers.
the heat can not quick delivered/spared to heatsink due to micas usage, even when it lubricated.
we need a strong and close blower fan,which i was not use it.
or take off the micas ( only lubricant), and isolate the heatsink from grounded things, 1 piece for mono.but thts only easy if the body made from plastic like mine.
they're good in other 'loud' tests.
even I never plays at such crazy loud for daily use, i choose to turn down the voltage to only 22.4VDC with micas as insulator+lubricant, for safety and hope durability.
it produce OK sounds either. i don't know if its also related with the LM series number ( the broken was 1875GY the new one is 1875AL ).
On the Soundking products, an "H" at the end of the model code indicates an 8 ohm driver, while a "G" instead indicates a 4 ohm driver.
The cast alloy (thick aluminum) model FB1805 is only available in 4 ohms, so its model code ends with a number.
So, the question is, did you ask the little amplifier for about 50 watts (with 8 ohm) or twice that much (with 4 ohm)?
The cast alloy (thick aluminum) model FB1805 is only available in 4 ohms, so its model code ends with a number.
So, the question is, did you ask the little amplifier for about 50 watts (with 8 ohm) or twice that much (with 4 ohm)?
danielwritesbac said:
The owner just forgot what in his boxes.
there was 2 kind of 15' ( it was 15' i/o 18' ) one pair was full range, its lighter to operate, maybe 4ohm. the said 2ways maybe was harder, maybe 8 ohm. i don't know.
but told, he also have a same trouble when try 'em with his SC amp. today he use 2 x 1200 of behringer for tht speakers.
oh yes please
do you know how?
I think that your amplifier experiment was either hooked up to 4 ohm drivers, or something with a severe impedance dip.
Safe answer:
Use a 36vct rated, 18+18vac transformer. That will have excellent performance on 8 ohm speakers, with 27 watts, and it won't blow up if you transport it and then connect unfamilar mystery speakers (probably operating at 4 ohms).
Limitation: However operation of 4 ohm speakers is a bit safer on 25vdc rails (use inefficient diodes or a 32vct (16+16) transformer. In case of 4 ohm drivers, the maximum power output relates to heat. At 42 watts, the heat will not go into the heatsink fast enough and. . . r.i.p.
Fun risky answer:
A 40vct rated, 20+20vac transformer. That will operate 8 ohm and 16 ohm speakers. However, the amplifier will blow up if 4 ohm speakers (or 8 ohm with a severe dip) are connected.
Alternative:
If you like the extra punch dynamics of an LM1875, the LM3875 sounds similar and the larger chip runs much cooler.
Although it looks more complex at first, six of its eleven pins are NC (unnecessary). Like LM1875, there are only five connections. Unlike LM3886, the LM3875 is easier to drive for the source device. And, it puts out the least amount of heat.
Safe answer:
Use a 36vct rated, 18+18vac transformer. That will have excellent performance on 8 ohm speakers, with 27 watts, and it won't blow up if you transport it and then connect unfamilar mystery speakers (probably operating at 4 ohms).
Limitation: However operation of 4 ohm speakers is a bit safer on 25vdc rails (use inefficient diodes or a 32vct (16+16) transformer. In case of 4 ohm drivers, the maximum power output relates to heat. At 42 watts, the heat will not go into the heatsink fast enough and. . . r.i.p.
Fun risky answer:
A 40vct rated, 20+20vac transformer. That will operate 8 ohm and 16 ohm speakers. However, the amplifier will blow up if 4 ohm speakers (or 8 ohm with a severe dip) are connected.
Alternative:
If you like the extra punch dynamics of an LM1875, the LM3875 sounds similar and the larger chip runs much cooler.
Although it looks more complex at first, six of its eleven pins are NC (unnecessary). Like LM1875, there are only five connections. Unlike LM3886, the LM3875 is easier to drive for the source device. And, it puts out the least amount of heat.
got it,
i'm just proofing that the smaller ohm cause more heat.
ths maybe also participacing problem of my last burning amp.
maybe you can help to adv how to count the true impedance when using the crossover?
i attached my car's crossover network for example.
the pioneer's ( kitchen ) crossover have optional 8ohm or 16ohm, i dont know what inside, for i can not open the slacking case. what you think inside, if it can turn to 8ohm or 16 ohm?
so.. we can not go more greedy with said 50watt with 8ohm and twice with 4 ohm
you know the small wattage is not 'selling' in my country, thats the reason why this good chipamp is not popular here, unlike the bigger 3886. people wants more hundreds even more wattage.
i don't know, and don't know how to count, but the second chance in last crazy test, succes to impressed everyone. no one believes that this only a 'twenty-something' watt system till i open the case.
i'm still curious with the 34VDC.
the kitchen's with the 10A trafo and big heatsink still runs 34VDC well in normal use.
once i try the kitchen amp to drive the 2 ways ( 6' woofer ),was realy like a high end sound coming from the cheap drivers.
i will not do more crazy test, i don't need such loudness level. but i'll take a risk to have 32 or 34 vdc from bigger trafos for normal daily use, with heatsink management for compensation. i can not loose such great sound
maybe i will turns my replaced 3886 to be a guitar amp, can we the 1875 NFB setting for this 3886?
sorry for too much asking, my poor brain not able develops anything without some precious clues.
anyway, thanks.
Eka
i'm just proofing that the smaller ohm cause more heat.
ths maybe also participacing problem of my last burning amp.
maybe you can help to adv how to count the true impedance when using the crossover?
i attached my car's crossover network for example.
the pioneer's ( kitchen ) crossover have optional 8ohm or 16ohm, i dont know what inside, for i can not open the slacking case. what you think inside, if it can turn to 8ohm or 16 ohm?
so.. we can not go more greedy with said 50watt with 8ohm and twice with 4 ohm
you know the small wattage is not 'selling' in my country, thats the reason why this good chipamp is not popular here, unlike the bigger 3886. people wants more hundreds even more wattage.
i don't know, and don't know how to count, but the second chance in last crazy test, succes to impressed everyone. no one believes that this only a 'twenty-something' watt system till i open the case.
i'm still curious with the 34VDC.
the kitchen's with the 10A trafo and big heatsink still runs 34VDC well in normal use.
once i try the kitchen amp to drive the 2 ways ( 6' woofer ),was realy like a high end sound coming from the cheap drivers.
i will not do more crazy test, i don't need such loudness level. but i'll take a risk to have 32 or 34 vdc from bigger trafos for normal daily use, with heatsink management for compensation. i can not loose such great sound
maybe i will turns my replaced 3886 to be a guitar amp, can we the 1875 NFB setting for this 3886?
sorry for too much asking, my poor brain not able develops anything without some precious clues.
anyway, thanks.
Eka
![carcross[1].jpg](/community/data/attachments/99/99992-108084fc672c184184a53e5eacfc4a92.jpg)
Actually, the LM1875 limit is 42w heat, which is more like 32w (maybe 39w) of music. Otherwise the heat won't go into the heatsink fast enough.
Guideline: Lower the voltage for 4 ohm drivers. The 4 ohm drivers will "ask" for twice the power of 8 ohm drivers.
MAX:
You can use a 36vct/18vds transformer with LM1875 for 4 ohm drivers. EDIT: 26vdc rails
You can use a 40vct/20vds transformer with LM1875 for 8 ohm drivers. EDIT: 29vdc rails
EDIT: At maximum, thermal management (heatsink) is difficult.
Speaker: You can measure the woofer with your ohmmeter, and a reading of about 6 ohms DCR is an 8 ohm woofer. A reading of about half that much is a 4 ohm driver.
Imagine that you can comfortably transport a 50 pound object on your bicycle, and let's relate that to an 8 ohm load.
However, . . .
Now imagine that you are suddenly asked to carry a 100 pound object on your bicycle, and let's relate that to a 4 ohm load. What do you have to do? Select a lower gear is the answer, and let's relate that to a lower voltage.
EDIT: Greedy? Yes, me too. Higher efficiency speakers is the answer. For example, 95db, 1w, 8 ohm, is a great place to start.
Guideline: Lower the voltage for 4 ohm drivers. The 4 ohm drivers will "ask" for twice the power of 8 ohm drivers.
MAX:
You can use a 36vct/18vds transformer with LM1875 for 4 ohm drivers. EDIT: 26vdc rails
You can use a 40vct/20vds transformer with LM1875 for 8 ohm drivers. EDIT: 29vdc rails
EDIT: At maximum, thermal management (heatsink) is difficult.
Speaker: You can measure the woofer with your ohmmeter, and a reading of about 6 ohms DCR is an 8 ohm woofer. A reading of about half that much is a 4 ohm driver.
Imagine that you can comfortably transport a 50 pound object on your bicycle, and let's relate that to an 8 ohm load.
However, . . .
Now imagine that you are suddenly asked to carry a 100 pound object on your bicycle, and let's relate that to a 4 ohm load. What do you have to do? Select a lower gear is the answer, and let's relate that to a lower voltage.
EDIT: Greedy? Yes, me too. Higher efficiency speakers is the answer. For example, 95db, 1w, 8 ohm, is a great place to start.
if the speaker is 90db/W/m and you require 60db @ 1m then you need 1mW to the speaker for your 60db.eketehe said:
If you require 60db at your seating position from a pair of speakers then add about 8db to your signal for a 2.4m listening distance.
Now you need about 8+8mW for 60db.
for each increase of 10db you need ten times the power.
80mW for 70db
0.8W for 80db
8W for 90db
80W for 100db
If your speakers are only 87db/W/m then double the power of the signal for the same volume. 84db/W/m needs four times the amount of power.
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