I was wondering how long it would take him to do such a thing because all he's interested in is concert hall realism. The acoustic properties for that are rather well defined - just add the right amount of delayed reflections. Bose 901 comes to mind.
Try to listen to Watsons alone the way i set them up and you will be surprised what you can learn. I have the advantage that i listened to Siegfrieds system many times ( not with the Watsons, but i will do that ) and it does not sound overly difuse. He listens to Jazz and Pop too and i found the "imaging specificy" very focused.
The only thing that i prefer is much higher volume and harder slamm and drama plus a bit more air in the stratosphere but i am younger.
The only thing that i prefer is much higher volume and harder slamm and drama plus a bit more air in the stratosphere but i am younger.
If by "listen to the Wastons alone" you mean listen to a pair of small speakers with wider than normal separation and closer to the plane of the speakers, do you mean to say you never listened to a pair of small speakers that way?
Whether or not any speaker sounds overly diffuse or not is largely a function of the room and listening distance. I'm sorry but I don't see anything here that isn't just tinkering, not that there is anything wrong with that. Remember that a dipole speaker, within the dipole range, radiates less power than a typical narrow baffle box speraker with baffle step correction (i.e. the omni range). Thus the reverberant field of a dipole system may actually be less intense that that of a conventional box speaker.
Adding discrete, loud reflections can create a great sense of spaciousness and depth. But, I wan't to get away from head-in-a-vise stereo. The "Watson" concept is a step back.
I listened a bit more and what i found is that i have to move the listening seat a bit more into the direction of the main speakers, ca 10cm. When i go back to the old position it can sound a bit difuse and phasy. Where i sit now focus is nearly as it was without the Watsons sitting in the old postion.
I plan to build a relay box where i can switch the Watsons in and out and maybe the main speakers too.
Sure, it is a one man show, but i do not feel clamped like it can happen with electrostats. It is quite tolerant to head movement.
I plan to build a relay box where i can switch the Watsons in and out and maybe the main speakers too.
Sure, it is a one man show, but i do not feel clamped like it can happen with electrostats. It is quite tolerant to head movement.
All of the work with Watsons so far appears to have been to use them while sitting in the "sweet spot" for the main speakers. What happens if you use the Watsons while sitting off-centre from the main speakers, where the imaging would normally be degraded somewhat? Do the Watsons improve the imaging? Might it be possible to have several listening seats, each with their own pair of Watsons, so multiple listeners can experience good imaging?
One could integrate the Watsons into the listening chair back rest just behind the ears 😀
In the freq range where ITD dominates spatial perception (< 1kHz) it does not matter if the speakers are in front or behind of the listener.
Anyone try placing Watsons behind the listener yet ? 😀
- Elias
In the freq range where ITD dominates spatial perception (< 1kHz) it does not matter if the speakers are in front or behind of the listener.
Anyone try placing Watsons behind the listener yet ? 😀
- Elias
Mazda did. My '97 Miata had normal stereo speakers and then each seat had a small pair of speakers in the head rest. They made things very clear, particularly when cruzin with the top down. 😎
Thanks for sharing your observation Joachim.
I will share my long-term experience later on.
Guys, we are DIYers, don't be some audiophile opinionists. More real-world experience are needed here 😎
Build => try => improve => share 😀
gainpile, you can shade the Watsons with your hands. With the Watsons my bass improves because there is more warm slam in the fundamental tone area, think residuum.
Markus, my perception apparatus is made from silk and yours is made from digits. You have absolutely no clue what i am hearing. Was that too rough ? Then please moderators put me in the bin for some days.
Markus, my perception apparatus is made from silk and yours is made from digits. You have absolutely no clue what i am hearing. Was that too rough ? Then please moderators put me in the bin for some days.
All this is barely a new idea. I have been listening like this for months, with various sizes, bandwidth, delays and distributions. It works very well if the centimetric listening spot and the resulting length of the whole system is not an issue.
Joachim, you are probably correct that the bass improves, and it is no surprise. I showed that this should be the case years ago. If the low frequency source is close to the listener then what is heard is void of room modes because the direct sound overwhelms the modal response. Look at the bottom of my web page , in particular the last two figure at the bottom of the page and associated text. I advocated placing a subwoofer close to the listener, with appropriate delay and level, years ago. But, as usually, no one was paying attention. 🙁
Hmm I have different experience, using dipole main speakers.
- With dipole watson the overall presentation sounded a bit thin in midbass. I thought this was due to cancellation between rear radiation of watson vs. main speakers. Should be easily equalised though (but did not)
- With monopola watson the midbass is preserved (or better?) but for some reason it messes the lower bass definition of the main dipole loudspeakers.
Both of the above traits, I don't like.
I have tried various bandwidth of the watson. The best I could come up with perceptually was to cut at 1.3khz with LR4. Here they are virtually 'inaudible'.
I use G-Pole main speakers and cross them at 80Hz to an M-Dipole woofer that is somewhat further in the back. What you can try is move a bit forward. I ones heard a system at Essex University where the speakers where firing from straight 90° into the ears.
Malcolm could let in rain 10m under me and fly a helicopter 20m over me around my head.
That gives the maximum shading but tonal balance was off into the hollow.
Malcolm could let in rain 10m under me and fly a helicopter 20m over me around my head.
That gives the maximum shading but tonal balance was off into the hollow.
So we place a lot of big and small speakers close around us. Yes, this Watsons will never make it into the living room of the average listener. He or she is not even allowed to place one pair optimally in reality, not to mention that he or she has any clue to place them well anyway.
There are other ways to 3D stereo. I sugest reading : Dr. Peter Damaske "Acoustics and Hearing" for the result of 40 years research into L-R crosstalk cancelation.
There are other ways to 3D stereo. I sugest reading : Dr. Peter Damaske "Acoustics and Hearing" for the result of 40 years research into L-R crosstalk cancelation.