I did hear and compare both.
They both have there own attributes and flaws.
My point in defending Gary's speaker is that we all seem to get stuck on a certain way of doing things, but from my own experience.... There are more things to consider in audio reproduction than just one strong attribute. Which is why I get a little defensive when people say "you can't do better than the Behringers for the money"
WRONG.
They both have there own attributes and flaws.
My point in defending Gary's speaker is that we all seem to get stuck on a certain way of doing things, but from my own experience.... There are more things to consider in audio reproduction than just one strong attribute. Which is why I get a little defensive when people say "you can't do better than the Behringers for the money"
WRONG.
So what commercial product is better than the Behringers at its price point? You can't compare a home made product based on components only. You have to compare what it would sell for in the marketplace, usually three to four times the parts costs (and sometimes more, much more.) The IMP would not be cheap to make.
It was stated that we as diy'rs could not do better.
I never said that there was something that sold for retail could outperform them.
I own the darn things.....
Obviously I like them.
Ok, I misunderstood what you were saying I guess.
I mean
sounds a little to me like you thought that there were better speakers for the money.
I mean
sounds a little to me like you thought that there were better speakers for the money.
Yeah, I meant for the money it would cost to build.
I thought that's what we were talking about.
I thought that's what we were talking about.
Except that you also have to incorporate economies of scale, operational overhead, etc.... the economic argument for a small-market product like a speaker gets convoluted quickly.
To me, given how many different tastes there are, a key aspect of DIY that is a huge value-add is that one can tune things to their preference and learn along the way. Instead of swapping speakers out ad nauseum, one can move towards their personal taste.
From a cost savings perspective, a great preexisting design, built without buying any new tools and an satisfaction with the result is necessary for DIY loudspeakers to truly represent a cost savings.
For me, I could afford some Summas/Subs if all the tools, crossover parts, old drivers, etc were summed up, and could save all that time invested. The the time itself was a value for me; I'm enriched by looking at the speakers I built, knowing why they are designed the way they are, and there's nothing wrong with them sounding a little better because they're my babies and I love them. We're all human- it's okay to be flawed and subject to evaluation issues, so long as when you're looking to move toward and can understand that your subjective evaluation can be flawed and one needs to hit "reset" on things sometimes with measurements.
The behringers are an extreme point on the value spectrum, and a great solution for those who don't want to have a learning experience and are on a budget.
Badman
Agreed. My basic concern among DIY is that few understand what it takes to truly develop "a great preexisting design". It is not a trivial task. It takes lots and lots of time and know-how. So potential DIYers should not be fooled by the often claimed "My speakers, which I designed and built myself, sound great!" Everyone is going to say that even if the end product is terrible. Using a well proven existing design and making it yourself for the fun of doing it and the pride of achievement is a great way to save some money. But arrogantly assuming that anyone can make great speakers if you just buy "the right stuff" is a fools paradise.
Agreed. My basic concern among DIY is that few understand what it takes to truly develop "a great preexisting design". It is not a trivial task. It takes lots and lots of time and know-how. So potential DIYers should not be fooled by the often claimed "My speakers, which I designed and built myself, sound great!" Everyone is going to say that even if the end product is terrible. Using a well proven existing design and making it yourself for the fun of doing it and the pride of achievement is a great way to save some money. But arrogantly assuming that anyone can make great speakers if you just buy "the right stuff" is a fools paradise.
I doubt many that build a diy speaker from scratch has no good commercial reference. it would be foolish to think they make a good speaker if they cannot compare it to other high end offering imo.
Indeed, I agree, and thats why I finally gave up and am in the market to find a speaker that I like. Will audition amphion speakers this week.
What I will do though, is when I will find the best speaker I can afford, once in my possesion, I will try to better that said speaker. even if it takes me years, I dont mind.
I think DIY is worth it when you go into the BIG speakers. There pratically no commercial offering 12 inch or 15 inch bass under 10k, and this is where some of us will never be able to pay that kind of money. so this is what I will do, find the best 2 way possible within 3k, then try to best that speaker using 15 inch woofers, 200L cabinets: a brutal 3 way 🙂. This will probably be what I will do!
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Most Commercial Hi End Speakers are a poor reference.. Maybe 1 out 10, from what I've heard or owned, so Far.. Maybe it's where I live, OH well!
im curious what you have heard in commercial offering.
ive had many speakers and heard a whole lot of vintage or modern speakers.
Ive heard a lot of hifi speakers, some are bad, others good and some amazing.
Nope, after weeks of painstaking work I listened and decided to stick with IC's, the speakers sounded like do-do.
I can try for a short list.. Long one would take awhile to recall and lots without remembering the names..
Wilson: Sophia, Grand Slam, Various Watt, Max 2
Proac: 1SC, Response 2, 2.5, 3, D series..
B&W: most of Nautilus line, then some of Diamond..
AudioNote
Von S
Lots of PSB and Paradigm of course..
PMC
Lot of vintage , many, many new offerings I heard at Taves and other shows over last 20 years..
I enjoyed a few of these, Because I like music🙂
some are heavily faulted.. Sometimes it can be the location and associated equipment..
Wilson: Sophia, Grand Slam, Various Watt, Max 2
Proac: 1SC, Response 2, 2.5, 3, D series..
B&W: most of Nautilus line, then some of Diamond..
AudioNote
Von S
Lots of PSB and Paradigm of course..
PMC
Lot of vintage , many, many new offerings I heard at Taves and other shows over last 20 years..
I enjoyed a few of these, Because I like music🙂
some are heavily faulted.. Sometimes it can be the location and associated equipment..
which are your favorites out of them? My audio note will be sold, so im interested. I will try amphion this week!
BUT, have you had in your room any of those speakers.
In my experience, a BIG difference between hearing a speaker in a show and owning them for a while...
Melo theory,
Thanks for the review of the IMP.
geickmei,
If I wanted to buy, how much would the IMP sell for?
Thanks for the review of the IMP.
geickmei,
If I wanted to buy, how much would the IMP sell for?
IME, Owning them for awhile is really the only way, then all will be revealed..
Where Do you live? If your in GTA, you can hear my commercial offering..
Are you looking used? Price?
Response 2 Is a good speaker, and hard to find.. Fantastic midrange and Bass, Good Integration.. Treble is fine but to much diffraction, like AN and like so many others..
In My room, Response 2, Nautilus 801, Response 1SC, Response 2.5, D80, Elsinore, several Energy, several PSB, Sound dynamics. Mirage M1 and M7,
Martin Logan early 90's(Model escapes me).. 30-40 vintage, Have to really think about which are worth looking for, some are good for sure.. The Advent Loudspeaker🙂 Good for High School system at the time..
Where Do you live? If your in GTA, you can hear my commercial offering..
Are you looking used? Price?
Response 2 Is a good speaker, and hard to find.. Fantastic midrange and Bass, Good Integration.. Treble is fine but to much diffraction, like AN and like so many others..
In My room, Response 2, Nautilus 801, Response 1SC, Response 2.5, D80, Elsinore, several Energy, several PSB, Sound dynamics. Mirage M1 and M7,
Martin Logan early 90's(Model escapes me).. 30-40 vintage, Have to really think about which are worth looking for, some are good for sure.. The Advent Loudspeaker🙂 Good for High School system at the time..
yes, or a long audition in store. in show, its impossible to know how it will sound especially with your music.
I listen to a lot of electronica so need tight fast and detail sound and bass.
I will try amphion. I have tried so many speakers, its so time consuming.
headphones are so much easier to deal with. I listen mainly to music with headphones as the details are just unequaled for me. I need all that detail because I listen to a lot of ambient electronica, which all the subtle sounds will be easily lost with a loudspeaker.
Im in montreal, canada
I believe amphion will be the answer. ever hear a amphion speaker?
I listen to a lot of electronica so need tight fast and detail sound and bass.
I will try amphion. I have tried so many speakers, its so time consuming.
headphones are so much easier to deal with. I listen mainly to music with headphones as the details are just unequaled for me. I need all that detail because I listen to a lot of ambient electronica, which all the subtle sounds will be easily lost with a loudspeaker.
Im in montreal, canada
I believe amphion will be the answer. ever hear a amphion speaker?
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I have to Honest, I cant see that Amphion will be your answer.. That recessed tweeter sound, will cause you a headache.. My Beastie Boys and Bjork CD's will sound harsh and detail will be masked on those Amphions..
Lots of Performance characteristics are important but, the treble is the one aspect, that can be the most annoying..
"subtle Sounds" you need a speaker that reduces diffraction!
anyways, I have learn the biggest lesson in life: you need to hear them before buying any speakers.
I will try them and report!
This advice seems to fly directly in the face of everything I have read lately about the Amphion line, e.g.
https://www.gearslutz.com/board/high-end/851143-high-end-nearfield-test-86.html
what does fly directly in the face mean? does it mean his comment was totally opposite of amphion reviews and user reviews?
I have yet to find many negative review about amphion line.
I have learn well enough to stop believing any review and trusting my own ears. I ALWAYS been dissapointed.
the kef ls50 are just shitty speakers, just bad with terrible bass, yet glowing review can be found, so I take any review witha grain of salt
while user reviews I trust more, and people from gearslutz even more.
I know that quested, amphion and psi are probably the three best monitors company, and ive seen a user going from psi to amphion.
anyways, I will see.