Yes that's exactly what I mean the comment was completely opposite to what I have read so far about Amphion. From all reports, Amphion, Quested and PSI are the three brands showing the most promise to truly professional users, many of whom are active on gearslutz.
And, you are exactly right in trusting your own ears over all else.
yeah, and ive learn that neutral is good! lol. while I can appreciate and will miss audio note virtue, theres problem I cannot live with Im afraid!
Vocals on audio note are the most goosebumping I have ever heard. can bring one to tears honestly, but then it hides a lot of details.
Will report on the amphion line, Im afraid the monitors amphion line are not available for demos. which is a problem for me...
Details and transparency is my most important feature I think. I want the most resolving speaker, so I wonder why in hifi, people want colored and warm speakers. Musicality is not coming from warm speakers, but live in the music itself. Maybe monitors studio are the real answers. not the active ones with relatively bad amps, but passive monitors studio...
Vocals on audio note are the most goosebumping I have ever heard. can bring one to tears honestly, but then it hides a lot of details.
Will report on the amphion line, Im afraid the monitors amphion line are not available for demos. which is a problem for me...
Details and transparency is my most important feature I think. I want the most resolving speaker, so I wonder why in hifi, people want colored and warm speakers. Musicality is not coming from warm speakers, but live in the music itself. Maybe monitors studio are the real answers. not the active ones with relatively bad amps, but passive monitors studio...
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What is happening here?
I can't believe the defeatist additude.
Repeat this in the mirror everyday people.
I design and build better speakers than most commercial offerings at a fraction of the price.
I can't believe the defeatist additude.
Repeat this in the mirror everyday people.
I design and build better speakers than most commercial offerings at a fraction of the price.
What if you are someone who eats, sleeps and breaths with the obsession of audio reproduction? And who has built and tested nearly every type of speaker?
If this person is claiming he or she can design and execute something worthy....
Are they living in a fools paridise?
😡
youre only a fool if you dont verify your diy speakers with the very best out there commercially. Otherwise, how in the hell can one convince himself he has a good speaker? comapred to what?
And to find the very best out there commercially, it will take alot of time and effort and money, ect. a awful lot. It can takes year of research and try out before being able to find the most transparent speakers because you have to hear most of them before being able to be sure of your findings. duhhh
Only then will you know how good your diy speakers really are.
right?
Its a bit like finding new music. At least, that happened many time for me. Used to love a guitarist, then found a better one, then a better one, then a better one ect.
What is clear to me, is that what I use to thought was a great guitar player( the best!) I now see that very guitar player average compared to all my favorite guitar player Ive discovered.
However, if you do the reasearch and end up with the very best of the speakers out there for you, your diy effort will surely be much better, as you have a true reference of what you want from a speaker. Then when you design your speaker, You will know damn fast if your xo works, or not, or even if the driver your using is good enough for your goalect.
anyways, thats how I see it!
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You're missing the quaifiers- "just" buy the right stuff. The statement doesn't preclude a serious DIYer from making a great design- but it precludes a novice being able to design something polished and capable. I agree with that. What I can do in my sleep now, is 10x better than my best effort 10 years ago.
Your own ears or your own test equipment, apparently. You'd think small monitors for professional use going for $1500-3000 would have a measurement or ten in the brochure wouldn't you? No, of course not. 😀 At least PSI has a few.
I think "anyone can cook ...". Especially nowadays.
Few years ago people like SL needed to build his own spectrum analyzer! It's like wanting to cook nasi goreng but need to know how to cast iron for the wok.
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Perhaps one can take this discussion for a design challenge. Pick a commercial products with known attainable drivers (something like a bookshelf rectangular speaker, no waveguides, or wierd shapes). Than design a speaker based on those drivers and compare to the commercial design. Than you can have a price per performance comparison.
Without a doubt, designing a good speaker in the sub $1k range (or even $500) involves good amout of research, understanding of theory, finding drivers that will match well, calculations, measurements, and assembly. Than even more measurements and testing after assembly and redesign.
Designing a critically acclaimed(or a very good) speaker.... now that comes with many years of experience, experimentation, and theory. Very few people will be able to get performance of the Summas or Orions. I can understand why Dr. Geddes says that it's a fools dream to think that anyone can design a good speaker. From his POV and experience I would say the same, but he is at a level of performance where most on this forum aren't.
You guys will probably disagree but I think there are plenty of sub $500 diy speakers out there that are a good design for the $$... not Orion or Summas good.
Without a doubt, designing a good speaker in the sub $1k range (or even $500) involves good amout of research, understanding of theory, finding drivers that will match well, calculations, measurements, and assembly. Than even more measurements and testing after assembly and redesign.
Designing a critically acclaimed(or a very good) speaker.... now that comes with many years of experience, experimentation, and theory. Very few people will be able to get performance of the Summas or Orions. I can understand why Dr. Geddes says that it's a fools dream to think that anyone can design a good speaker. From his POV and experience I would say the same, but he is at a level of performance where most on this forum aren't.
You guys will probably disagree but I think there are plenty of sub $500 diy speakers out there that are a good design for the $$... not Orion or Summas good.
That's got to be more than "a few years". I have had a PC based spectrum analyzer for almost 20 years now. That's more than "a few".
That's not really relevant to whether or not it's a good idea to have a retail speaker design(s) for comparison to your own work, because of course it is. Besides, this thread was once about comparing some speakers to each other. The horse you are looking for is over here.
Actually I really like this idea. Could someone here at DIY design and build a speaker that would measure as well as the Behringer for < $300? I'd love to see that. I don't think that I could, but then I'm not into smaller speaker designs.
The Behringers waveguide might be tricky, but it is doable. I could do that without much trouble, but all the rest would be a problem.
Of course the DIY side would disregard labor costs as that is not the point.
Any takers? I "might" offer the waveguide (at cost! if enough people were interested.) and I would certainly post the results and take them as well if desired.
Wow🙄
Without measuring and much design experience, pulling off anything great, would seem impossible.. That's why I recruit the right people.. I think one has to get real about ones current abilities, otherwise, expect a long drawn out process with lots of disappointment.. I'm sure Lots of good designs are on this forum but just like the commercial offerings, sifting through and making a decision, is difficult..
Here's how I see commercial speaker market..
1)Many top designs fail because the designer doesn't know what the final result should sound like so having the required tools want make any difference..
2) some speakers have a distinct flavor, some people like this..
3)Some companies have a concept that is they're bread butter.. The concept can be flawed but the client base and sales are huge and has been established over decades.. Even if they know it's flawed, how can they possibly change to something new or better..
Read this guy.. fits well with what I hear when I listen to wilson..
http://www.linehifi.de/NEWS/Fundsachen/Wilson_teaser.pdf
Without measuring and much design experience, pulling off anything great, would seem impossible.. That's why I recruit the right people.. I think one has to get real about ones current abilities, otherwise, expect a long drawn out process with lots of disappointment.. I'm sure Lots of good designs are on this forum but just like the commercial offerings, sifting through and making a decision, is difficult..
Here's how I see commercial speaker market..
1)Many top designs fail because the designer doesn't know what the final result should sound like so having the required tools want make any difference..
2) some speakers have a distinct flavor, some people like this..
3)Some companies have a concept that is they're bread butter.. The concept can be flawed but the client base and sales are huge and has been established over decades.. Even if they know it's flawed, how can they possibly change to something new or better..
Read this guy.. fits well with what I hear when I listen to wilson..
http://www.linehifi.de/NEWS/Fundsachen/Wilson_teaser.pdf