I can't agree at all with the points proposed above.
The budget required to successfully complete a project is just inversely proportional to your skills.
The clumsier designers are the ones that have to expend a fortune to make something work. I have developed from scratch a working class D prototype capable of producing +/-150V and +/-30A output with just a few hundred euro investment (and it could have been much cheaper because I use to buy 25 or 100 parts to get quantity discount, even when I just need two or a dozen).
The budget required to successfully complete a project is just inversely proportional to your skills.
The clumsier designers are the ones that have to expend a fortune to make something work. I have developed from scratch a working class D prototype capable of producing +/-150V and +/-30A output with just a few hundred euro investment (and it could have been much cheaper because I use to buy 25 or 100 parts to get quantity discount, even when I just need two or a dozen).
Sorry Eva, but I have spend this for over the 10 last years, when no information on class d was avaible....I have made too lot of experimentation to fine tune my power amp to the best, smallest and lightest amplifier avaible on the market. Dont forget that prototype PCB, prototype case, prototype heatsink, prototype silkscreen cost a lot. That's not just a question of skills, but a question of how you make them...for fun or for production ready equipement! I agree with you that a prototype can cost 200 euro to built, without case, without green solder mask PCB, without case, without plug, knob, etc! I can built in a day a KW amplifier that will stay on the table, but I take 3-4 month and 20 000$ to built a ready to produce unit! And dont forget the 8000$ more for certification, and 2000$ more for manual, certification report, shipping box, warranty verification, lexan, silkscreen, storage, FCC regulation....So I think with only 100 000$ in R&D for 10 years is really good!
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
Kanwar, I see you're trying to take the high road, good for you. Is it not easy to be on the popular, politically correct side.. my hero. Here's a few facts for you:
You think of yourself as you are the only who admire the UCD on this forum by posting alot of threads/posts on it....
Than what about others who also admire its superb features which include me as well.....
You haven't the first inkling as to what or how I happen to think of myself. More so it is irrelevant, and serves only to fuel the fire, which will not help ol Tekko. Yes.... what of you? You're of little concern to me.
If you have no interest in clocked designs then its your own personal matter and thought not of all other members preferably mine and Fredos...
Synchronising is one of the most important and significant feature offered by clocked designs which is not available in self oscillating type class-d amps....
By the way do you really know what are the real benefits of synchronisation You do very well know it! don't you..
Sir, your personal matters as a "PRO AUDIO" designer is irrelevant to me. This is far removed from the topic of discussion as I already pointed out, and you failed to get. Do you run with it simply because you think I'm unable to discuss the matter?
However, I am aware of _the_ benefit of synchronization, and I'm aware that you can in fact synchronize a self oscillating amplifier.
It seems to me that you don't even know what is the basic difference in design of a pro-audio gear and between a home audio gear...
Could you solve my problem of eliminating Beat fequency Oscillations occuring and giving rise to awful sounds when a bunch of Self oscillating Class-D modules are powered from same signal source as well as same power supply source and that too without synchronising them which isnot possible, if yes then please let me know so that i could update my knowlegde!
I don't pretend to know pro audio. Why would you decide to make that a concern of yours when I already pointed out to you it is not the topic of discussion, other than to be belittling and more so argumentative.
I believe I do know how I would solve that problem though, I don't even think it's a big deal in fact, but how you solve it, or don't solve it, is of no importance to me. Had you asked in any other way I'd have been happy to voice my opinion /ideas on the matter. As it stands, I direct you to google. 🙂
Absoutely Incorrect Mr.Class-D 4 sure....We arent coddling him and nor we are validating the inappropriate questions here...if Tekko isnot able to do the research or enlighten some of his design mistakes then it doesnot mean that we should simply say that
" You are wasting our time ,Hence we would not give any advice to you for solving your problems"
but the fact is that you are simply ruining the DIY spirit by making him aware that he is not capable of doing anything therefore letting him to purchase some readymade module amp and say goodbye to this forum and he may sat on his chair listening to that module in which he has made no contribution except from paying $$$ to get it and must feel satisfied by simply listening to his no way creation....
You're still coddling him! The more attention you give him for it, the more he's going to cry (as seen above). I already said "as his enablers you will defend this behavior". Here you are..., my hero.
Please, don't make me give you all kinds of examples on the matter to prove my point, when you already know it damned well because it's been so painfully obvious for so long. Would you have me shame him further just because you think you want to play a hero's role of popular rule? I believe I have made my points on the matter, and I can assure you I can validate each one many times over.
I will point out though that _you_ sir are the one who has stated the following:
-"Tekko isnot able to do the research or enlighten some of his design mistakes"
-"...he is not capable of doing anything"
-"He doesnot says "Do it for me" because he doesnot know how to do it"
.... and had the audacity to add several smilies after it? That's all far worse in my opinion than anything I ever said, even if you do choose to take what I said out of obvious context, after I've gone to great pains to explain the context of it to you to ensure it's painfully obvious.
Did you even think before posting this? I hope not!
Where we actually differ is that I DO believe he is capable of researching himself, can identify and learn from mistakes, but that he has simply never tried. 2 or ten minutes doesn't count. Not even two hours.
I believe he could make himself far more capable if he simply applied himself in the most reasonable, basic ways. You start doing research projects and basic troubleshooting in what... grade six? Does he sound retarded to you? I didn't think so. You ought to expect more of him.
I believe he will never know how to do it for himself if you keep feeding him answer after answer on a spoon when he's obviously too lazy to make the slightest effort towards finding the answer himself. So lazy in fact that he would rather ignore advice given to him than to try and make sense of it, and instead keeps repeating the question, when he should be researching, before he gives up "again".
By enabling him as you do, you are disabling him, and in the worst way. You're ensuring he will be your consumer. I gave him a good boot towards the right direction, towards the attitude needed for DIY, to be resourceful for a change, something you haven't done.
Don't you think it's pathetic for Eva to have felt the need to tell him to clean and organize his work space????
I'll stand by every word I said, and if you're posting just to argue with me, you're not helping him at all!
I think Tekko already given you that answer in previous post
As I've given you both mine.
I dont take the things personally as you do take them and thats the biggest thing of difference between you and me! because I take them professionally not personally....
Well, that must be why you're my superhero today.
Why donot you stop discouraging him ! and letting him do what ever he wants.....He doesnot says "Do it for me" because he doesnot know how to do it.....😀 😀 😀 😀
I think I answered this already didn't I. I actually encouraged him to keep at it, but for a change, in a way where he actually stands to learn, as well as within his means so he doesn't spend himself out of a hobby, because hobbiest don't have "pro audio" means, they ought to be happy as hell they got it working on a breadboard, and that, would be the most beautiful thing.
If you can't appreciate those sentiments, well, you're the pro audio guy after all, and this is a diy forum.
Finally, no real DIYer who put their heart and soul, blood sweat and tears into a project would so readily give up on it after a few dollars too many, or simply "ran out of parts", and float along to the next few spastic ideas. They'd be ripping apart their TV looking for parts.
Why? Because they've invested too much! Too much time, too much research, to want to give up on it so readily, and prove they've learnt nothing along the way.
So Kanwar, if you want to argue with me further, take it to email. I've made my points, can and will stand by them, and your willingness to push this along with the way in which you are doing it, is going to crush any ambition he may have had.
Additionally, you'll never be able to make me look worse than I already do for myself. So if that's your goal, don't bother.
You think of yourself as you are the only who admire the UCD on this forum by posting alot of threads/posts on it....
Than what about others who also admire its superb features which include me as well.....
You haven't the first inkling as to what or how I happen to think of myself. More so it is irrelevant, and serves only to fuel the fire, which will not help ol Tekko. Yes.... what of you? You're of little concern to me.
If you have no interest in clocked designs then its your own personal matter and thought not of all other members preferably mine and Fredos...
Synchronising is one of the most important and significant feature offered by clocked designs which is not available in self oscillating type class-d amps....
By the way do you really know what are the real benefits of synchronisation You do very well know it! don't you..
Sir, your personal matters as a "PRO AUDIO" designer is irrelevant to me. This is far removed from the topic of discussion as I already pointed out, and you failed to get. Do you run with it simply because you think I'm unable to discuss the matter?
However, I am aware of _the_ benefit of synchronization, and I'm aware that you can in fact synchronize a self oscillating amplifier.
It seems to me that you don't even know what is the basic difference in design of a pro-audio gear and between a home audio gear...
Could you solve my problem of eliminating Beat fequency Oscillations occuring and giving rise to awful sounds when a bunch of Self oscillating Class-D modules are powered from same signal source as well as same power supply source and that too without synchronising them which isnot possible, if yes then please let me know so that i could update my knowlegde!
I don't pretend to know pro audio. Why would you decide to make that a concern of yours when I already pointed out to you it is not the topic of discussion, other than to be belittling and more so argumentative.
I believe I do know how I would solve that problem though, I don't even think it's a big deal in fact, but how you solve it, or don't solve it, is of no importance to me. Had you asked in any other way I'd have been happy to voice my opinion /ideas on the matter. As it stands, I direct you to google. 🙂
Absoutely Incorrect Mr.Class-D 4 sure....We arent coddling him and nor we are validating the inappropriate questions here...if Tekko isnot able to do the research or enlighten some of his design mistakes then it doesnot mean that we should simply say that
" You are wasting our time ,Hence we would not give any advice to you for solving your problems"
but the fact is that you are simply ruining the DIY spirit by making him aware that he is not capable of doing anything therefore letting him to purchase some readymade module amp and say goodbye to this forum and he may sat on his chair listening to that module in which he has made no contribution except from paying $$$ to get it and must feel satisfied by simply listening to his no way creation....
You're still coddling him! The more attention you give him for it, the more he's going to cry (as seen above). I already said "as his enablers you will defend this behavior". Here you are..., my hero.
Please, don't make me give you all kinds of examples on the matter to prove my point, when you already know it damned well because it's been so painfully obvious for so long. Would you have me shame him further just because you think you want to play a hero's role of popular rule? I believe I have made my points on the matter, and I can assure you I can validate each one many times over.
I will point out though that _you_ sir are the one who has stated the following:
-"Tekko isnot able to do the research or enlighten some of his design mistakes"
-"...he is not capable of doing anything"
-"He doesnot says "Do it for me" because he doesnot know how to do it"
.... and had the audacity to add several smilies after it? That's all far worse in my opinion than anything I ever said, even if you do choose to take what I said out of obvious context, after I've gone to great pains to explain the context of it to you to ensure it's painfully obvious.
Did you even think before posting this? I hope not!
Where we actually differ is that I DO believe he is capable of researching himself, can identify and learn from mistakes, but that he has simply never tried. 2 or ten minutes doesn't count. Not even two hours.
I believe he could make himself far more capable if he simply applied himself in the most reasonable, basic ways. You start doing research projects and basic troubleshooting in what... grade six? Does he sound retarded to you? I didn't think so. You ought to expect more of him.
I believe he will never know how to do it for himself if you keep feeding him answer after answer on a spoon when he's obviously too lazy to make the slightest effort towards finding the answer himself. So lazy in fact that he would rather ignore advice given to him than to try and make sense of it, and instead keeps repeating the question, when he should be researching, before he gives up "again".
By enabling him as you do, you are disabling him, and in the worst way. You're ensuring he will be your consumer. I gave him a good boot towards the right direction, towards the attitude needed for DIY, to be resourceful for a change, something you haven't done.
Don't you think it's pathetic for Eva to have felt the need to tell him to clean and organize his work space????
I'll stand by every word I said, and if you're posting just to argue with me, you're not helping him at all!
I think Tekko already given you that answer in previous post
As I've given you both mine.
I dont take the things personally as you do take them and thats the biggest thing of difference between you and me! because I take them professionally not personally....
Well, that must be why you're my superhero today.
Why donot you stop discouraging him ! and letting him do what ever he wants.....He doesnot says "Do it for me" because he doesnot know how to do it.....😀 😀 😀 😀
I think I answered this already didn't I. I actually encouraged him to keep at it, but for a change, in a way where he actually stands to learn, as well as within his means so he doesn't spend himself out of a hobby, because hobbiest don't have "pro audio" means, they ought to be happy as hell they got it working on a breadboard, and that, would be the most beautiful thing.
If you can't appreciate those sentiments, well, you're the pro audio guy after all, and this is a diy forum.
Finally, no real DIYer who put their heart and soul, blood sweat and tears into a project would so readily give up on it after a few dollars too many, or simply "ran out of parts", and float along to the next few spastic ideas. They'd be ripping apart their TV looking for parts.
Why? Because they've invested too much! Too much time, too much research, to want to give up on it so readily, and prove they've learnt nothing along the way.
So Kanwar, if you want to argue with me further, take it to email. I've made my points, can and will stand by them, and your willingness to push this along with the way in which you are doing it, is going to crush any ambition he may have had.
Additionally, you'll never be able to make me look worse than I already do for myself. So if that's your goal, don't bother.
fredos said:
You've also been selling product for who knows how long, and have likely recouped much of that cost, or you would not still be in business, would you? AAaaaaahhhhhhh the land of pro audio, what does that have to do with tekko's project?
He's reached an obvious limit at 200 euro, and has learnt nothing. He will not be recouping that cost. He should probably therefore adopt some way of doing more, cheaper.
FCC and designer heatsinks and such... are of no relevance, and I don't feel you should be encouraging him to keep spending when you're not encouraging him to learn.
Wow... 100.000$ big money. I will make a software company like microsoft with that money, not just homework amps. 
You a rich man Fredos...
You know tekko... I have lot of plan but money is also my problem like you. Secondly the available component (you know.. third country).
But with that scope you have, I though that you shall have no problem in building proccess. Esspecially for non self oscillation circuit. Try to make good signal form from beginning before you implement a big power source. Then don't forget always connect the source via fuse. Connect with several mA for input stage + driver and 1A-2A for end stage. I always use 1A MCB until hear sound. Use big fuse only when you test the performance.
You know...
that I lost dozen of old stock fets because I make mistake like you. Thanks god that the fets the no cost.
Best Regards,
Kartino
You a rich man Fredos... You know tekko... I have lot of plan but money is also my problem like you. Secondly the available component (you know.. third country). But with that scope you have, I though that you shall have no problem in building proccess. Esspecially for non self oscillation circuit. Try to make good signal form from beginning before you implement a big power source. Then don't forget always connect the source via fuse. Connect with several mA for input stage + driver and 1A-2A for end stage. I always use 1A MCB until hear sound. Use big fuse only when you test the performance.
You know...
that I lost dozen of old stock fets because I make mistake like you. Thanks god that the fets the no cost.Best Regards,
Kartino
Hi Tekko
I will post some pictures of a +/-300V +/-30A full bridge version soon. I have just received the heatsinks, the aluminium oxide insulators and the female pin-strip sockets in order to have easily removable daughter boards (modulator and gate drive) for testing.
I agree with Fredos that production costs may grow huge, but prototyping is far more cheaper (provided that you know what you are doing and you use as much industry-standard low-cost parts as possible).
However, your main pitfall is that you never seem to fully understand what you are doing, and you try to achieve too big steps at a time. Note that I developed and tested a gate drive circuit, a power stage and a modulator almost separately.
I will post some pictures of a +/-300V +/-30A full bridge version soon. I have just received the heatsinks, the aluminium oxide insulators and the female pin-strip sockets in order to have easily removable daughter boards (modulator and gate drive) for testing.
I agree with Fredos that production costs may grow huge, but prototyping is far more cheaper (provided that you know what you are doing and you use as much industry-standard low-cost parts as possible).
However, your main pitfall is that you never seem to fully understand what you are doing, and you try to achieve too big steps at a time. Note that I developed and tested a gate drive circuit, a power stage and a modulator almost separately.
Eva said:
Eva, Is it meant for Industrial application, which devices at the output IGBT or Mosfets and whats the switching frequency..you were certainly mastering one of the Big monster Class-d amps on this forum..Dont you feel scared at 600V peak 😉 😀 😀
hello all..
can anyone help me... a discrete parts "counterpart" of IR2112 or ANY Hi-Lo MOSFET gate drivers/lever shifters??
I would REALLY like to build a D-amp.. but parts aint available.... ORdering them overseas IS otu of my league.. too long in waiting...
can anyone help me... a discrete parts "counterpart" of IR2112 or ANY Hi-Lo MOSFET gate drivers/lever shifters??
I would REALLY like to build a D-amp.. but parts aint available.... ORdering them overseas IS otu of my league.. too long in waiting...
Yes RX5...
Read post before, I post a link to another thread with all discret component..
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
Read post before, I post a link to another thread with all discret component..
Fredos
www.d-amp.com
snip Tekko;
"Try this:"
Sorry Tekko,
Why better not?!
Please simulate this circuit!😉
Regards
Heinz
"Try this:"
Sorry Tekko,
Why better not?!
Please simulate this circuit!😉
Regards
Heinz
The circuit in message 191 won't work. The concept is ok, but the implementation falls far short.
sawreyrw: The circuit in message 191 won't work. The concept is ok, but the implementation falls far short.
thanks for the info....
tekko, I was wondering WHAT the Vbias voltage WAs? i mean how many volts...
anymore ideas? pls...
😀
level shiftiing on high side, MY PROBLEM..
thanks for the info....
tekko, I was wondering WHAT the Vbias voltage WAs? i mean how many volts...
anymore ideas? pls...
😀 level shiftiing on high side, MY PROBLEM..
Hi sawreyrw,
You're right. Simulate it. Even it works but not fast enough. I see the fastest discrete driver is only the UcD's on earth.
I am sorry but at least the only appear on my internet screen.
Even it built from junk part. UcD is the only for 'poor' DIYer.
Best Regards,
kartino
You're right. Simulate it. Even it works but not fast enough. I see the fastest discrete driver is only the UcD's on earth.
I am sorry but at least the only appear on my internet screen.Even it built from junk part. UcD is the only for 'poor' DIYer.
Best Regards,
kartino
Hi, I miss that you want to replace the IR2011? Maybe you need to change that design to match your input stage as well
Usage of N-CH MOSfet
hello all,
MODE #1 :
shown bellow, using the N-CH mosfet.. in the 1st picture, when LOAD is in DRAIN of mosfet, triggering it to full conduction is easy... apply +12V
MODE #2:
however , if putting the load in the SOURCE of mosfet, higher voltage is needed to trigger the mosfet to ON state... inputing +12V only will result in an "output" of half (+6V) the supply voltage (w/c is +12V)....so to trigger it to full conduction requires higher input voltage to GATE.. higher than supply voltage (12V).....
guys, correct me if im wrong... hence , the lever shifter chips (IRxxxx)....
this is based on my experience using N-ch mosfet H-bridge for my robotics projects.... N-CH mosfets are MUCH cheaper than P-ch... 🙂
i was thinking, of making a HVDC (+45VDC) and use high speed transistors to "switch" it to the HIGH side N-ch fets... (mode #2 of picture)
comments pls....
hello all,
MODE #1 :
shown bellow, using the N-CH mosfet.. in the 1st picture, when LOAD is in DRAIN of mosfet, triggering it to full conduction is easy... apply +12V
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
MODE #2:
however , if putting the load in the SOURCE of mosfet, higher voltage is needed to trigger the mosfet to ON state... inputing +12V only will result in an "output" of half (+6V) the supply voltage (w/c is +12V)....so to trigger it to full conduction requires higher input voltage to GATE.. higher than supply voltage (12V).....
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
guys, correct me if im wrong... hence , the lever shifter chips (IRxxxx)....
this is based on my experience using N-ch mosfet H-bridge for my robotics projects.... N-CH mosfets are MUCH cheaper than P-ch... 🙂
i was thinking, of making a HVDC (+45VDC) and use high speed transistors to "switch" it to the HIGH side N-ch fets... (mode #2 of picture)
comments pls....
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