Thanks for that plot, as I was going by memory in reconstructing the EQ curve from V2.1.0.
Bit of a warning: this time when I installed 3.4.1, the installer didn't first ask if I wanted to overwrite the current installed version (was 2.1.0) and just overwrote everything, including all my keyboard shortcuts and add-on filters/commands. So I'll be taking some off-time to reconstruct everything...and it might take a while.
Alas, the spectrogram colors in 3.4.1 are still inferior to version 2.1.0 (IMHO), so it's going to make looking at spectrograms a lot more difficult now--which wasn't terribly easy beforehand. The last time I looked at the Audacity development team's solution for this, they basically wanted the user to patch the installed code in order to customize spectrogram colors--a "no-go" for me a couple of years ago.
Oh well...I guess I'm "up to date" now... 😥
Chris
Bit of a warning: this time when I installed 3.4.1, the installer didn't first ask if I wanted to overwrite the current installed version (was 2.1.0) and just overwrote everything, including all my keyboard shortcuts and add-on filters/commands. So I'll be taking some off-time to reconstruct everything...and it might take a while.
Alas, the spectrogram colors in 3.4.1 are still inferior to version 2.1.0 (IMHO), so it's going to make looking at spectrograms a lot more difficult now--which wasn't terribly easy beforehand. The last time I looked at the Audacity development team's solution for this, they basically wanted the user to patch the installed code in order to customize spectrogram colors--a "no-go" for me a couple of years ago.
Oh well...I guess I'm "up to date" now... 😥
Chris
That really shouldn't happen. We can't complain because it's a free program.
Edit: Nothing in the Recycle Bin?
OT: I recall Siemens upgrading our BMS system. The new one couldn't make reports anymore which we
needed badly for audits. This left us with paying for two licenses. The old one who couldn't perform certain tasks
in the new environment and the new one who couldn't make reports...
Go figure.
Hugo
Well, I have to give credit where it's due: the 3.4.1 Audacity installer didn't overwrite the 2.1.0 executable, only its keyboard preferences (but didn't ask me whether of not I wanted to uninstall the older image).
When I found and relaunched 2.1.0, a dialog box appeared which allowed me to reconnect my external plugins. Whew!
Sorry for the thread dilution: carry on...
One of the things that no one really talked about with respect to the video, etc. was the time alignment and phase distortion of the loudspeakers auditioned. I find this one factor (i.e., phase/time alignment) has a large effect on the perceived timbre of the loudspeaker, about as large an effect as the different directivity response of the fully horn-loaded models (La Scala, Khorn, and Jubilee) over the direct radiating bass bin models (Cornwall, Heresy, Forte).
Only the Jubilee is time aligned in the video (the others have large discontinuities in time alignment), and the Jubilee's group delay curve has a pretty significant kick at the crossover frequency (~340 Hz) due to the higher order IIR filters used in the DSP crossover supplied with the loudspeakers. Once these issues are taken care of, these loudspeakers begin to sound much more alike--except perhaps for "apparent source width" (ASW), which varies more than you'd think among them. But you really have to be in-room to hear the ASW differences, however. The Jubilees' soundstage image covers the entire end of the room.
Chris
When I found and relaunched 2.1.0, a dialog box appeared which allowed me to reconnect my external plugins. Whew!
Sorry for the thread dilution: carry on...
One of the things that no one really talked about with respect to the video, etc. was the time alignment and phase distortion of the loudspeakers auditioned. I find this one factor (i.e., phase/time alignment) has a large effect on the perceived timbre of the loudspeaker, about as large an effect as the different directivity response of the fully horn-loaded models (La Scala, Khorn, and Jubilee) over the direct radiating bass bin models (Cornwall, Heresy, Forte).
Only the Jubilee is time aligned in the video (the others have large discontinuities in time alignment), and the Jubilee's group delay curve has a pretty significant kick at the crossover frequency (~340 Hz) due to the higher order IIR filters used in the DSP crossover supplied with the loudspeakers. Once these issues are taken care of, these loudspeakers begin to sound much more alike--except perhaps for "apparent source width" (ASW), which varies more than you'd think among them. But you really have to be in-room to hear the ASW differences, however. The Jubilees' soundstage image covers the entire end of the room.
Chris
Only big words here - where are your recordings! 
Finally found time to do mine. Listening position, MicW M215 microphones. Pointed to the tweeter to get a more realistic recording of them (difference is not that big). I have a table reflection with this quick setup, you can hear that in the midrange (when you know the system).
It's a pitty we can not add soundfiles here ...
Finally found time to do mine. Listening position, MicW M215 microphones. Pointed to the tweeter to get a more realistic recording of them (difference is not that big). I have a table reflection with this quick setup, you can hear that in the midrange (when you know the system).
It's a pitty we can not add soundfiles here ...
.wav file is to big to share here - but 2 photos from the recording positions I tried.
With this mic distance there is not to much room information with an AB setup, stereo base is not fully used. But I wanted to stick in the area where the head would be.
p.s.: No idea why people use that song as reference. Plastic, extremely processed drumset of that area. Will sound good on most speakers. Repeats the whole time, could have been 2min30s without loss ... and now had to listen to it a few times completely ... just for you guys!
With this mic distance there is not to much room information with an AB setup, stereo base is not fully used. But I wanted to stick in the area where the head would be.
p.s.: No idea why people use that song as reference. Plastic, extremely processed drumset of that area. Will sound good on most speakers. Repeats the whole time, could have been 2min30s without loss ... and now had to listen to it a few times completely ... just for you guys!
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Try ORTF layout with a cardioid pattern mic for recording.
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORTF_stereo_technique
"ORTF is a very balanced method of stereo recording that sounds quite natural and similar to how we perceive sound in the real world"
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/ORTF_stereo_technique
"ORTF is a very balanced method of stereo recording that sounds quite natural and similar to how we perceive sound in the real world"
Attachments
Room behaviour at LF is far too specific to the room to prescribe a one-size-fits-all EQ. My room has a strong (+18dB) mode at 40Hz, others might have peaks/dips in other locations.
I'm curious why you'd recommend the Blumlein pair. Velocity (fig-8) mics don't capture LF the way our pressure-sensitive ears do, and having rear-arriving sound out-of-phase and in the wrong ear seems odd.
I'm aware that it can work well for recording certain types of music in certain venues, but those venues will typically be ones where the rear-arriving sound is diffuse: general reverb rather than the discrete reflections we often get in our acoustically-small listening rooms.
It seems to me that binaural recording is the only sensible way of transporting a listener to our listening room. Microphones, generally, are dumb: they'll pick up sound from whichever direction (subject to polar pattern) and convert it to signal.
Our ear/brain combination can be much more discerning about which signals to pay attention to. The Haas/precedence effect is one example of this.
It follows, then, that the way to transport someone to our listening room is to capture the sound as if it was arriving at eardrums, and allow the listener's brain to reconstruct the directional cues.
Chris
Here is the bass bin channel EQ curve right out of the (fixed) second-gen Klipsch Jubilee DSP crossover:
In order to tame its bass response in any home-sized listening room, you'll need to start with that big attenuating PEQ with that Klipsch-supplied fixed DSP crossover that was set up for half space only.
For the exact type of "small listening rooms" typically used in home listening rooms in the UK (which is apparently your part of the world) as opposed to the part of the world where the Jubilee is made and engineered--in the south-central US, my guess is that the Jubilees would actually need more attenuating EQ than the one PEQ per bass bin channel I mentioned above. But that one PEQ will likely get you much closer to the response of the other Klipsch loudspeakers shown in YouTube video--where pretty obviously none of them were properly EQed in for the room, loudspeaker placements, and microphone positions used in the video.
I neither like nor own headphones (and its okay to ask me why--I don't bite too hard)--and I'm pretty sure that most diyAudio enthusiasts don't own recording heads - which are really expensive to do well, and are basically required for binaural recordings.
The author of the video is likely using poorly suited stereo microphones built into a smartphone or lower-end video cam. These are typically awful for purpose. My suggestion of a Blumlein pair is simply more representative for use in the listening spaces of many listening rooms (i.e. very small and poorly sealed for use in the bass pressure zone). These can be bought as a relatively inexpensive pair for less than $1K. Recording heads of any real quality for purpose are much more expensive--and bulky to store around a hi-fi store of the type shown in the video.
My listening space does have diffuse returning echoes--doesn't yours? (That's actually a joke--for our literal-minded diyAudio "experts")...
Simulated amplitude response corresponding to the listening position(s) shown above:
Why the chip on the shoulder? It's Advent season and perhaps you're looking to pick an argument to distract from the merriment? Note that your suggestion for using a recording head for binaural recordings has already been floated in this thread a couple of times. I feel it's unrealistic that most people watching the video will use headphones. I know I won't.
Chris
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