Speaker Crossover Chart and Capacitance vs. Frequency Calculator(High-pass)
Car Audio - Speaker Crossover Chart and Capacitance vs. Frequency Calculator(High-pass)
Car Audio - Speaker Crossover Chart and Capacitance vs. Frequency Calculator(High-pass)
20kHz? Aww for goodness sake!! I've looked through posts on my other 12LTA build with Godzilla and he was using a 103dB tweeter and toned down from 1.5uf to 1uF. I guess the shallow slope and higher efficiency driver would have given him more treble in the lower reaches.
Me? I followed blindly/deafly apparently
I know more now but didn't rethink the crossover for the Emken build..........
I'll get something more on the FT17H. Maybe 1uF + 1uF + 1.5uF in parallel, which should get me to 5700hZ ish
Me? I followed blindly/deafly apparently
I know more now but didn't rethink the crossover for the Emken build..........I'll get something more on the FT17H. Maybe 1uF + 1uF + 1.5uF in parallel, which should get me to 5700hZ ish
Yes, my tweeter has more tweet than yours lol... but still use your ears when determining the right sound (for you). Everyone's room/tastes are different so i don't like to say with certainty someone is doing something wrong. In the end, it's all about the music and our enjoyment regardless of measurements. Of the options i've been faced with I enjoy the 12lta on ob... but i also enjoyed it in a small sealed box. I don't have the skills to build an Emken (but i've built a few back horns using smaller drivers and understand how a cabinet can play a major role in overall sound). When determining your crossover and cap values why not start from where you are now and simply add (or reduce) the value in .5uf increments? You can go smaller (.33uf or even less) when you feel you are narrowing it down to something perfect. I just get it close and enjoy the goodness i've achieved. If i can't get any goodness i box the drivers up and move onto something else. The 12lta is loaded with goodness as are so many drivers! Eventually i will have to move out (probably to a small apartment) and the 12lta's will have to go! Then i will focus on smaller drivers again and fine tune for my new listening environment(s). I'm looking forward to it... but i do not expect the same level of easy dynamics i'm getting from the larger drivers. But maybe i will learn to appreciate the finer details, speed and liquid midranges associated with smaller drivers.
Personally, i would not cross too low with the 12lta unless using a circuit to tame its extended response. This introduces additional complication i am not willing to face but that's not to say it isn't a worthwhile pursuit. I just want to keep things as simple as possible... and enjoy.
Personally, i would not cross too low with the 12lta unless using a circuit to tame its extended response. This introduces additional complication i am not willing to face but that's not to say it isn't a worthwhile pursuit. I just want to keep things as simple as possible... and enjoy.
I wonder if the style of phase plug that Zu uses on their 10'' drivers may benefit this 12'' offering?.. It's just a big blank or can style with some lathing on the top surface etc.. Might be worth giving it a go with a round blank of wood approx the same size and see from there.. Interesting thread, and seems like these drivers could be used in many different ways..
Omen Def Loudspeaker | Zu Audio
Omen Def Loudspeaker | Zu Audio
I hadn't even thought about the additional 5db yours had and followed blindly. I understand simple crossovers better now - but nowhere near completely! I didn't nave the skills either but got the panels cut at the lumber yard and then had a local carpenter cut the bevels on his big old table - et voila!! skill less Emken!! I need to grab some smaller caps for the tuning but I'll let you know how it goes.
You dont have to get rid of the 12LTA in a smaller space. Give it a smaller box and a sub and off you go. Mine are only in a diddy little UK 1 bed apartment and you remember how big my last boxes where!!!!!
Here are some measurements by member db6546 who kindly posted them on Zilla's previous 12LTA thread to add to the 7k crossover point: http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full-range/179161-beta-12lta-3cf-box-port-size-2.html#post2429767
They show standard, dustcapectomy, phase plugged and slow removal of the whizzer. Phase plugging does seem to raise the response considerably
They show standard, dustcapectomy, phase plugged and slow removal of the whizzer. Phase plugging does seem to raise the response considerably
For the record, I did not do those measurements but was happy to see them. I'm glad the measured frequency response of the 12lta correlates closely to other measurements.
The 12lta is such a crazy driver to work with. It's big (and ugly), has a distinct PA sound and requires smoothing, bass and treble help. What a mess! But if you have the space and desire efficiency and VOLUME it's an interesting option.
Honestly, I'd leave the crossover hounds to sniff out a lower crossover point and enjoy this driver as a widebander, enjoy it warts and all for the positive things it does and discount it (if you must) if you just don't like its sonic character.
The 12lta is such a crazy driver to work with. It's big (and ugly), has a distinct PA sound and requires smoothing, bass and treble help. What a mess! But if you have the space and desire efficiency and VOLUME it's an interesting option.
Honestly, I'd leave the crossover hounds to sniff out a lower crossover point and enjoy this driver as a widebander, enjoy it warts and all for the positive things it does and discount it (if you must) if you just don't like its sonic character.
Thanks for pointing out those measurements JRKO. The user made the comment I've quoted above. It looks like the gate is a little to low on a couple of those measurements, so you'll have to be careful when reading them. The waviness on a couple of them is a reflection that's contaminating the results.
Either way, I agree that it looks like the phase plug really cleaned up the top end.
Surprising to me, as I hear a lot of people claim phase plugs do nothing and are for off axis reasons only. Even then many claim they don't help and often hinder. This is an interesting example showing it really does make a difference.
I'm with Godzilla on the minimal way I want to 'treat' the 12LTA. Its not perfect but I REALLY like it none the less. She may not have the best looks but I can listen all night......
I'm actually thinking of a 31band EQ to shape the sound a little. I know that messes with true FR thinking. I have analogue and digital sources and dont want to pass analogue through a Behringer A/D and then D/A thing-a-mee box to get EQ & crossover.
EQ? did someone say EQ?
I'm actually thinking of a 31band EQ to shape the sound a little. I know that messes with true FR thinking. I have analogue and digital sources and dont want to pass analogue through a Behringer A/D and then D/A thing-a-mee box to get EQ & crossover.
EQ? did someone say EQ?
Phase plug present & correct here for about a year now and wouldn't go back. As you noted the measurements that db6546 are a bit rough and I think ChrisB pointed to the 4k dropout in the standard driver (still present on the phase plugged version to a lesser degree). I've applied a smidgen at 4k on the iTunes built EQ and its brought the Emken to life. The overall dry & accurate sound I noted before has changed to a 'more lifelike' & accurate sound.
db6456 measurements also show a drop between 6k & 7k and I wondered if that could be smoothed to let my FT17H come in a bit higher? Mainly because I can only apply EQ to my 1x digital source and not my 2x analogue sources
Bad idea?
db6456 measurements also show a drop between 6k & 7k and I wondered if that could be smoothed to let my FT17H come in a bit higher? Mainly because I can only apply EQ to my 1x digital source and not my 2x analogue sources
Bad idea?
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Ok I see. The 3rd graph down is what you have, and that measurement looks very valid and relflection "free". The 4.5khz suckout is very high Q and I'm surprised it's audible to you. Chances are the additional 4khz eq you applied is broad band and just sounds better to you, but not because it corrected the dip.
Beyond 7khz could probably be boosted, but the driver is also beaming like crazy there. Give it a try. Beyond 10khz is hopeless, no eq will fix that drop. It's gone.
If anything, I'd try a broad low q notch around 1500 to 2500hz. There's a bit of a hump there, that if it came off might sound better. This might be related to the 4khz eq you applied. Adding output at 4khz may have smoothed the transition from the bump. Try putting the 4khz back to flat and taking 2 or 3db off of 2khz. See what that does. I may sound like you lost some effeciency, so beware of that and give time to adjust.
Reminder, I've never heard this thing, so I'm just blowing smoke without the horsepower to back up what I'm saying. Just giving some ideas from a single on axis FR curve. Good luck.
Beyond 7khz could probably be boosted, but the driver is also beaming like crazy there. Give it a try. Beyond 10khz is hopeless, no eq will fix that drop. It's gone.
If anything, I'd try a broad low q notch around 1500 to 2500hz. There's a bit of a hump there, that if it came off might sound better. This might be related to the 4khz eq you applied. Adding output at 4khz may have smoothed the transition from the bump. Try putting the 4khz back to flat and taking 2 or 3db off of 2khz. See what that does. I may sound like you lost some effeciency, so beware of that and give time to adjust.
Reminder, I've never heard this thing, so I'm just blowing smoke without the horsepower to back up what I'm saying. Just giving some ideas from a single on axis FR curve. Good luck.
easily remedied by a short drive up the hill - bring your favorite tunes and call first
I think you've got a heap more hands on than I do though! Not much use having the things sitting here and not being able to perfect them. Really glad the Emken came up in Dave & Chris' calender!! Wish you were a short drive to my place
The 4k lift i've used is tiny but maybe all its done is 'season to taste' Vocals, especially female are more defined now. Also I assume the fact the driver wasn't measured previously in the Emken would make some difference?
From my understanding 'high q' means the short freq range the 4k drop falls and rises over, instead of a broad slow decay. Is that correct?
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