jkeny,
may I say in a fanatically open-minded manner, that this circuit has no mechanism to reduce crossover distortion so that would be dictatorial to expect.
may I say in a fanatically open-minded manner, that this circuit has no mechanism to reduce crossover distortion so that would be dictatorial to expect.
This takes me back. I think this might have come up in the Error Correction thread, quite some time ago. It's an interesting area, but I guess I'm reluctant to muddy this Krill thread with NFB. I think it can do without that just now. 😉Lumba Ogir said:
Happy to have a chat somewhere else, though. Maybe the EC thread?
Lumba Ogir said:
I'm open-minded about your statement! Let's wait & see - there may be other factors in operation, who knows - do you?
It would seem to me that the next step, if there is one, would be for someone to layout a PCB design, test it, and have some made. Then see what it does. Who has got the chops for this job?
It seems like a fairly simple output stage, so perhaps someone with a bench and some time + parts might put one together (as I mentioned before) "dead bug" style or perf board style.
Oh, and what is to be used for an input stage and VAS?? Even for testing??
Another thing to start to discuss from a practical point of view is which cost effective and currently available parts should be used where.
Then some tests could be run and we can see how it fares against some other real world amps?
Someone might tally up the "damage" (money) for the semiconductors required and any special parts (stuff not likely to be in one's parts drawers) so we can see what it will set us back if we try.
I'd do it myself, but I have no chance of doing it, and I'm backed up now with projects like a septic system that needed to be pumped out two years ago... graphic image, eh? 😀
I'm counting on all of you to make this happen, so that it will be easy for me to decide if I want to build one for my own pleasure, and to "pave the way." C'mon now!!
_-_-bear
It seems like a fairly simple output stage, so perhaps someone with a bench and some time + parts might put one together (as I mentioned before) "dead bug" style or perf board style.
Oh, and what is to be used for an input stage and VAS?? Even for testing??
Another thing to start to discuss from a practical point of view is which cost effective and currently available parts should be used where.
Then some tests could be run and we can see how it fares against some other real world amps?
Someone might tally up the "damage" (money) for the semiconductors required and any special parts (stuff not likely to be in one's parts drawers) so we can see what it will set us back if we try.
I'd do it myself, but I have no chance of doing it, and I'm backed up now with projects like a septic system that needed to be pumped out two years ago... graphic image, eh? 😀
I'm counting on all of you to make this happen, so that it will be easy for me to decide if I want to build one for my own pleasure, and to "pave the way." C'mon now!!
_-_-bear
bear said:It would seem to me that the next step, if there is one, would be for someone to layout a PCB design, test it, and have some made. Then see what it does. Who has got the chops for this job?
It seems like a fairly simple output stage, so perhaps someone with a bench and some time + parts might put one together (as I mentioned before) "dead bug" style or perf board style.
Oh, and what is to be used for an input stage and VAS?? Even for testing??
Another thing to start to discuss from a practical point of view is which cost effective and currently available parts should be used where.
Then some tests could be run and we can see how it fares against some other real world amps?
Someone might tally up the "damage" (money) for the semiconductors required and any special parts (stuff not likely to be in one's parts drawers) so we can see what it will set us back if we try.
I'd do it myself, but I have no chance of doing it, and I'm backed up now with projects like a septic system that needed to be pumped out two years ago... graphic image, eh? 😀
I'm counting on all of you to make this happen, so that it will be easy for me to decide if I want to build one for my own pleasure, and to "pave the way." C'mon now!!
_-_-bear
Hi Bear!
I've been waiting for this idea to raise it's head up. There have been several discussions as to better or newer devices, different CCS, biasing, etc. The VAS is a separate chapter and perhaps the power supply as well. All sorts of things to have fun with. This should of course (I think) be done on it's own thread - wiki (or whatever the new diyAudio site is going to use for such things) - web site (my least favorite choice), etc.
I would love to hear Steve's thoughts on such a matter and if would be willing to participate to some degree - perhaps as a facilitator or mentor. He's not feeling real hot right now - nothing to do with the thread - it's his health and physical ailments that have him sidelined at the moment. Hopefully to return soon and give us his insights as to his design. Steve has always said that if someone thinks that they can make his design better then just go ahead and do it. But don't come running back to him asking why the circuits you have morphed, modified, tweaked, and teased don't work the way you thought they would. IF you stray from his design YOU (not a personal "you" - a general et all "you") suffer the consequences. Those might me GOOD consequences - perhaps improvements are there to be had. IT might not - so what - it's all in the interest of gaining knowledge.
But I need to finish building my 50W amps that already came with a PWB - xfomer - and parts! Scrounging stuff up to start from scratch is a much bigger challenge (for me anyway). 🙄
I've got a project list on Mouser for the Krill 50 watter plus extra o/p transistors as I will be building higher power version. I can email it to anyone who wants it.
It's Saturday night and I'm feeling generous
It's Saturday night and I'm feeling generous
Good morning traderbam,
I did not mean doing it here, things are messed up enough already. I just feel that it`s a very good concept, but I don´t have the necessary insight, you are the right man to take on that.
I did not mean doing it here, things are messed up enough already. I just feel that it`s a very good concept, but I don´t have the necessary insight, you are the right man to take on that.
We're just about at page 50 on this thread after a long and arduous journey debating/arguing/theorising about Steve's circuit and now we're talking about building. But, correct me if I'm wrong, are people talking about building a variation of the design with pcbs to be made by someone?
Has the world gone mad or is it me? Steve already has boards for 100W that can be used as 50W by leaving out one pair of OP devices. It has the full VGS ALREADY - it is a complete amp just needs a PS. Is this not what we should be building & testing? edit: afaik SD has all the parts we need as surplus from when he made these commercially. I think we would be doing him & ourselves a favour to take them off his hands!
Otherwise the last 48 pages are just a waste of everybody's time & energy. As a side issue I think we should be giving something back to Steve by way of this
Has the world gone mad or is it me? Steve already has boards for 100W that can be used as 50W by leaving out one pair of OP devices. It has the full VGS ALREADY - it is a complete amp just needs a PS. Is this not what we should be building & testing? edit: afaik SD has all the parts we need as surplus from when he made these commercially. I think we would be doing him & ourselves a favour to take them off his hands!
Otherwise the last 48 pages are just a waste of everybody's time & energy. As a side issue I think we should be giving something back to Steve by way of this
This bloody internet connection is what I'm mad at not you Lumba - I just don't see why we are going around in circles talking/theorising/simulating, etc about a circuit which could have been built weeks ago and all these questions already solved?
I can't do it because I'm flat on my back but I'm interested in the outcome for when I get better
I can't do it because I'm flat on my back but I'm interested in the outcome for when I get better
I also saw somebody a while back in the thread looking for pics of the boards so they could copy them - what has this place degenerated into some sort of chinese knock-off shop?
jkeny,
I have been reading this thread very sporadicly, my timing is inappropriate, I am sorry but cannot feel guilty as long as I don`t mislead anybody.
I have been reading this thread very sporadicly, my timing is inappropriate, I am sorry but cannot feel guilty as long as I don`t mislead anybody.
May I suggest to open a sort of "Construction Thread" for the Krill where people can share info about building and results?
Ciao
Andrea
PS Another correction of schematic vs board: in Steve's boards the 10k bias trimpot is actually across D101 and D102 rather than across D102 and D103 as shown in the schematic. This doesn't change anything for the rest of the circuit but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Ciao
Andrea
Ciao
Andrea
PS Another correction of schematic vs board: in Steve's boards the 10k bias trimpot is actually across D101 and D102 rather than across D102 and D103 as shown in the schematic. This doesn't change anything for the rest of the circuit but I thought it was worth mentioning.
Ciao
Andrea
What would be an excellent idea is for somebody to map out the correct schematic that agrees with Steve's boards - this would remove all the confusion - whose on?
In post 1132 you drew only part of the circuit, so I'm not sure as to what degree your analysis is applicable to the entire circuit.
It looks to me that your judgment of the circuit, based on drawing only part of it, may be erroneous.
Simulation software can do only what their designers put into them. It is possible that some sim software fail to cope accurately with some non-conventional topologies. The fact that people here got markedly different results from simulating this circuit suggests that this may be the case with this particular design. Steve himself mentioned that some sim software failed to simulate his design.
As much as sim software are very helpful at the design stage, I doubt whether their results can be taken for granted as fully accurate, for all circuits. It appears to me that prior to actually building and measuring the circuit (and listening to it), the results of sim software are but possible indication, not necessarily the full and exact picture. This seems to be the case with this particular design.
So, again, it seems that stating that this design doesn't operate as stated by its' designer, when such statement are based on simulation alone – is out of place.
Furthermore, I have no reason to doubt Steve's integrity. So, if anyone here wishes to contradict his statements, such contradictions can be based only on measurements of the actual circuit.
Joshua_G said:
I've seen this before, perseverare diabolicum:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1763077#post1763077
Syn08,
You said,
Then you said,
Com'on man, why don't you talk black and white?? Be straightforward for our sake. It appears you are very knowledgeable with the subject, pls give us clear answers. If the color is grey then pls dont say it's not black, it's not white, it's not blue, it's not red...etc..etc...etc... when you do that and talk straightforward we will appreciate your contributions, what's being contributed is only confusion.😕
You may not know that your first statement is very offensive but I tell you it's a big insult coated with sugar. You don't want to hear those words coming from your father, hopefully the moderators will show some sensitivity with the wordings being used on the posts.
Thanks,
mannycc
You said,
Then you said,
Com'on man, why don't you talk black and white?? Be straightforward for our sake. It appears you are very knowledgeable with the subject, pls give us clear answers. If the color is grey then pls dont say it's not black, it's not white, it's not blue, it's not red...etc..etc...etc... when you do that and talk straightforward we will appreciate your contributions, what's being contributed is only confusion.😕
You may not know that your first statement is very offensive but I tell you it's a big insult coated with sugar. You don't want to hear those words coming from your father, hopefully the moderators will show some sensitivity with the wordings being used on the posts.
Thanks,
mannycc
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