Thanks for the links Ted.
After purchasing these I'll save and build a chip amp. Then I'll think about building a subwoofer. 🙂
Just working on the finances and then I should make my purchase.
After purchasing these I'll save and build a chip amp. Then I'll think about building a subwoofer. 🙂
Just working on the finances and then I should make my purchase.
Your room is pretty small.
Why not build a fullranger like this?
I have something similiar and they have a quality that amaze me from time to time. I don't need subs too surprisingly.
http://attlid.eu/p_swift.html
I bought the pair of TangBand from darcheraudio.com.au for a mere $20 each 😀
http://gainphile.blogspot.com/2008/11/tangband-w3-1364-3-monitor.html
Why not build a fullranger like this?
I have something similiar and they have a quality that amaze me from time to time. I don't need subs too surprisingly.
http://attlid.eu/p_swift.html
I bought the pair of TangBand from darcheraudio.com.au for a mere $20 each 😀
http://gainphile.blogspot.com/2008/11/tangband-w3-1364-3-monitor.html
Way to throw a spanner in the works Gainphile! 
😀
Darcher don't seem to have the Tang Bands in stock so I'll stick with the SEAS / Audax combo for now. If that doesn't work out, I'll look into full range vs. the wiki build.
Thanks.
P.S that enclosure is beautiful!!😱 🙂
😀 Darcher don't seem to have the Tang Bands in stock so I'll stick with the SEAS / Audax combo for now. If that doesn't work out, I'll look into full range vs. the wiki build.
Thanks.
P.S that enclosure is beautiful!!😱 🙂
Earlier I suggested the CSS FR125 for a fullranger and unlike most does cover most of the range quite well. I thought the Mark Audio CHR-70 was better but that was in a small room with average equipment. When I tried it in larger room with a better system the sonics fell apart. The only others I've tried or heard are the TB W3-871SC, Fostex FE127E and the Visaton B200. Yes, fullrange can be fun but to me not satisfying in the long term or on a broad range of music or systems. Give me a multi-way any day.
Matt
Allow about 0.5 litre for the driver.... be close enough and also allows a bit for the crossover. Also allow for any bracing you use. The volume required is the final air volume inside the box.
The LM3875 will have no problem driving these at all. When you do build one, use a 160VA 18V-0-18V transformer as that will give 25VDC rails after rectification.
http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MT2113&CATID=19&form=CAT&SUBCATID=539
Should give around 37W for these speakers and allows you to also drive a speaker with an impedance down to 4 ohm. If you use a higher voltage transformer like a 25V-0-25V (about 35VDC) then the power goes up but has problems driving a lower impedance.
Here's the amp section of a LM3875 that was built from an AudioSector kit. All it needs is a good 10K pot for the volume and source selection if required. The power supply was in another box.
Matt
Allow about 0.5 litre for the driver.... be close enough and also allows a bit for the crossover. Also allow for any bracing you use. The volume required is the final air volume inside the box.
The LM3875 will have no problem driving these at all. When you do build one, use a 160VA 18V-0-18V transformer as that will give 25VDC rails after rectification.
http://www1.jaycar.com.au/productView.asp?ID=MT2113&CATID=19&form=CAT&SUBCATID=539
Should give around 37W for these speakers and allows you to also drive a speaker with an impedance down to 4 ohm. If you use a higher voltage transformer like a 25V-0-25V (about 35VDC) then the power goes up but has problems driving a lower impedance.
Here's the amp section of a LM3875 that was built from an AudioSector kit. All it needs is a good 10K pot for the volume and source selection if required. The power supply was in another box.
Attachments
Rather getting Mark Audio CHR-70, try Mark Alpair 10, a liitle more expensive at about AUD$175 each from Darcher.
It was well reviewed by J. Griffin, J. Bagdly, etc, they said it sounded similar to and even better than Jordan 92.
It was well reviewed by J. Griffin, J. Bagdly, etc, they said it sounded similar to and even better than Jordan 92.
Ted
The Peerless 810921 tweeter is in a different league to Vifa and SEAS that you buy for sensible money but at a much higher price (I bought mine when they were A$89). The 810921 actually kicked out a Scan Speak in my mains and AndyG just replaced the DX25TG in the Gumby with a very nice result. I had a listen last Thursday and a great upgrade.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gradds55/ARGOS/Gumby.htm
It's an exceptional tweeter (you didn't need to know that did you?). 😉 I'm not even interested at looking for an improvement as it covers all the bases I need in a tweeter.
The Peerless 810921 tweeter is in a different league to Vifa and SEAS that you buy for sensible money but at a much higher price (I bought mine when they were A$89). The 810921 actually kicked out a Scan Speak in my mains and AndyG just replaced the DX25TG in the Gumby with a very nice result. I had a listen last Thursday and a great upgrade.
http://members.optusnet.com.au/~gradds55/ARGOS/Gumby.htm
It's an exceptional tweeter (you didn't need to know that did you?). 😉 I'm not even interested at looking for an improvement as it covers all the bases I need in a tweeter.
Yeah I'll take you up on your offer for a box drawing down the track if it still stands.
From what I've read a 300VA 25v-0-25v is suggested, but I'd love it if I could sub in the 160VA 18V-0-18V transformer as it is a good $40 cheaper! But I'd rather spend an extra $40 now, so in the future I can use the amp to power other (bigger/more needy) speakers?
Thanks again for all your help!
From what I've read a 300VA 25v-0-25v is suggested, but I'd love it if I could sub in the 160VA 18V-0-18V transformer as it is a good $40 cheaper! But I'd rather spend an extra $40 now, so in the future I can use the amp to power other (bigger/more needy) speakers?
I bought 50K Alps pots in a rush the other day, will that be alright?
Thanks again for all your help!
ttan98 said:
Needed a cheap little speaker with a quick build as mine was for a little TV/DVD/FM system and the CHR-70 worked fine for that. It's when you start getting serious is when FR really shows their limitations big time. I know the guys love them and that's fine as it's all down to taste, music, system etc. For $175ea I can build a very good multiway.
No worries with the drawing when it's required Matt.
A 300VA is overkill an not required. Christ, I run a 300VA in my AKSA 55N+ which puts out heaps more power and current and drives a speaker from hell. It's just not required in the real world and to me is a DIY thing because they can. Some go to a larger VA transformer for better regulation. I've even ran a LM4780 with a 80VA with no issues and that's equivalent to 2 LM3886 chips.
As far as voltage goes, the 25V (35VDC rails) is fine when you run 8 ohm speakers but start dropping the impedance and they start running hot, lose stability and the protection starts cutting in a lot. Have a look at the LM3875 data sheet and there's a nice little graph that shows rail voltage / power / impedance. The difference with say 37W to 49W output is virtually zilch... probably only about 1dB. As the rail voltage drops (35VDC vs 25VDC) more current is supplied which is required for lower impedance speakers (4-5 ohm). The speaker that you are looking at building is a 6 ohm speaker and has dips down to 4.5 ohm and is less than 5 ohm from 100Hz to 600Hz. A LM3875 chip will thank you for running lower rail voltages.
A 50K pot will still work fine so don't sweat over it. A 10K may have a little less noise and may have a little better detail but I've seen that work the other way.
A 300VA is overkill an not required. Christ, I run a 300VA in my AKSA 55N+ which puts out heaps more power and current and drives a speaker from hell. It's just not required in the real world and to me is a DIY thing because they can. Some go to a larger VA transformer for better regulation. I've even ran a LM4780 with a 80VA with no issues and that's equivalent to 2 LM3886 chips.
As far as voltage goes, the 25V (35VDC rails) is fine when you run 8 ohm speakers but start dropping the impedance and they start running hot, lose stability and the protection starts cutting in a lot. Have a look at the LM3875 data sheet and there's a nice little graph that shows rail voltage / power / impedance. The difference with say 37W to 49W output is virtually zilch... probably only about 1dB. As the rail voltage drops (35VDC vs 25VDC) more current is supplied which is required for lower impedance speakers (4-5 ohm). The speaker that you are looking at building is a 6 ohm speaker and has dips down to 4.5 ohm and is less than 5 ohm from 100Hz to 600Hz. A LM3875 chip will thank you for running lower rail voltages.
A 50K pot will still work fine so don't sweat over it. A 10K may have a little less noise and may have a little better detail but I've seen that work the other way.
I was hoping you'd say something like that!
Awesome, and if it bothers me too much I'll just drop another $10 or even just see if someone will trade one 50K for a 10K. 😀
I can't thank you enough rabbitz! The infomation you hold is something to marvel at. 🙂
Matt if you look around you should be able to scavenge a decent transformer and save dollars.
Transformers ( I am told ) hardly ever wear out or deteriorate.
Do you want a case and trannie, pay for postage and I'll send you my defunct Denon UK 250.
People are always throwing good stuff away, I have no skill and talent with electronics, but doing a chip-amp transplant into an existing amp is done all the time, I paid $55- on ebay for this amp and it lasted 5 years, it is yours for the asking.
I have no idea what the trannie is rated at but the amp was rated at 55 watts into 4R so it should be OK
Rabbitz would you say then that the SEAS was that big a step from the D27-45-06?? picked the combination of 2 X P-13s and the D27 was the huge number of proven designs for that combination, especially the reputation of the Ariel
Transformers ( I am told ) hardly ever wear out or deteriorate.
Do you want a case and trannie, pay for postage and I'll send you my defunct Denon UK 250.
People are always throwing good stuff away, I have no skill and talent with electronics, but doing a chip-amp transplant into an existing amp is done all the time, I paid $55- on ebay for this amp and it lasted 5 years, it is yours for the asking.
I have no idea what the trannie is rated at but the amp was rated at 55 watts into 4R so it should be OK
Rabbitz would you say then that the SEAS was that big a step from the D27-45-06?? picked the combination of 2 X P-13s and the D27 was the huge number of proven designs for that combination, especially the reputation of the Ariel
My mistake 50 into 4R
link
http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_...‚=1&MID=3&sub=2&fill=2&action=detail&Pid=198&
As said in primary posts SWMBO says I have to get rid of lots of stuff, if you can fix it I'll post it
link
http://www.denon.co.uk/site/frames_...‚=1&MID=3&sub=2&fill=2&action=detail&Pid=198&
As said in primary posts SWMBO says I have to get rid of lots of stuff, if you can fix it I'll post it
Matt
It's nice to be able to help and pass on some experience from DIY. Passing this info along can save a few dollars by not having the wrong choice. This is a good thread as it's about learning, choices and building and hopefully resulting in a nice pair of speakers. I think Ted's enjoying this thread as well.
Ted
I prefer the sonics of the 27TFF over the D27TG as it seems to have that extra bit of air, more realistic plus I think it has lower distortion below the xo point. It does have a price of having to crossover higher (about 3400Hz) due to the higher Fs, but with the P13 is not an issue and allows the P13 to do a bit more of it's magic. The end result has been a very smooth speaker indeed that's very tolerant to a lot of different types of music and recording variations.
I use it with a Nelson Pass B1 and a Anthony Holton NXV200 and it's a very nice combination. It is used in a small room with the speakers being nearfield.
It's nice to be able to help and pass on some experience from DIY. Passing this info along can save a few dollars by not having the wrong choice. This is a good thread as it's about learning, choices and building and hopefully resulting in a nice pair of speakers. I think Ted's enjoying this thread as well.
Ted
I prefer the sonics of the 27TFF over the D27TG as it seems to have that extra bit of air, more realistic plus I think it has lower distortion below the xo point. It does have a price of having to crossover higher (about 3400Hz) due to the higher Fs, but with the P13 is not an issue and allows the P13 to do a bit more of it's magic. The end result has been a very smooth speaker indeed that's very tolerant to a lot of different types of music and recording variations.
I use it with a Nelson Pass B1 and a Anthony Holton NXV200 and it's a very nice combination. It is used in a small room with the speakers being nearfield.
Moondog55 said:
Moondog55 said:
Haha, I'm a tad confused whether you're offering it to me to 'hermit crab' a chip amp into it... or try to fix it?
In all honesty the chances of me fixing it are absolutley slim due to my age/time/expertise. 🙂
But if the offer stands for me to salvage what I can and move in a chip amp I'd be absolutely delighted to take it off your hands.
I might be getting ahead of myself but from what I can work out on the AusPost website.. postage should be about $20-$25, I'm down with that if you are. 🙂
😀rabbitz said:
If you had the expertise to fix it, it would still be cheaper to put a chip amp into it.
Email me your address and pay me the postage after you collect it.
the amp has lost the left channel completely.But as you put it so nicely a "Hermit crab" transplant should do the trick.
Yes I am enjoying the thread, I'm a good tradesman unable to teach in my own field, so if my comments and opinions can help it makes my day a little better.
Matt; it helps that the questions you have asked have been intelligent and pertinent.
Email me your address and pay me the postage after you collect it.
the amp has lost the left channel completely.But as you put it so nicely a "Hermit crab" transplant should do the trick.
Yes I am enjoying the thread, I'm a good tradesman unable to teach in my own field, so if my comments and opinions can help it makes my day a little better.
Matt; it helps that the questions you have asked have been intelligent and pertinent.
I have learnt more in this thread about speakers that I couldve ever imagined. I hope one day I can maybe design my own or even help somebody.
You're comments, as well as, rabbitz and everyone else's in the thread and even in this forum really inspire me to be excited about pursuing a career in Audio. Sound is powerful stuff.
And of course, they've inspired me to build some pretty mean speakers as well! 😀
Senior secondary education is paying off then. 🙂
I'm going to buy a few meters of Silver Litz speaker wire, for hooking up the woofers/tweeters to the crossovers and maybe even make some banana cables.
Is there anything else in Ralph's ebay store worth purchasing with the speakers?
Like purchasing components for the crossover, would any of the capacitors he has up be useful? (To buy and then probably send down to rabbitz if he can still help out with the crossover.)
Cheers,
Matt.
Is there anything else in Ralph's ebay store worth purchasing with the speakers?
Like purchasing components for the crossover, would any of the capacitors he has up be useful? (To buy and then probably send down to rabbitz if he can still help out with the crossover.)
Cheers,
Matt.
Matt, try and wire up the crossover your self, technically it isn't all that difficult to solder a few wires together and it IS a learning process after all, if you are thinking or making up a chip amp kit then the skills should be with-in your grasp.
Rabbitz may disagree buy there is a lot of rubbish talked about cables (( HUGE thread of its own )) for speaker cables just keep the DCR as low as practicable.
I kind of like these banana plugs
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Gold-Plated-...409078486&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
I use industrial power cable for speaker leads, 2.5mm<, cheap and does the job.
Can't comment on silver Litz wire, never used it, if you do use it for speaker cables try plaiting around a centre run of non-conductive material, such as ( for instance ) 3.5mm polyester cord or thick cheap fishing line, twisted pair style, then wrapping in paper tissue, foil and then sealing in duct tape or electricians tape.
Rabbitz may disagree buy there is a lot of rubbish talked about cables (( HUGE thread of its own )) for speaker cables just keep the DCR as low as practicable.
I kind of like these banana plugs
http://cgi.ebay.com.au/Gold-Plated-...409078486&_trksid=p3286.c0.m14&_trkparms=66:2|65%3A1|39%3A1|240%3A1318|301%3A0|293%3A1|294%3A50
I use industrial power cable for speaker leads, 2.5mm<, cheap and does the job.
Can't comment on silver Litz wire, never used it, if you do use it for speaker cables try plaiting around a centre run of non-conductive material, such as ( for instance ) 3.5mm polyester cord or thick cheap fishing line, twisted pair style, then wrapping in paper tissue, foil and then sealing in duct tape or electricians tape.
I've purchased from motho (Selby) before, so that looks like a good idea.
Could you please explain what DCR is and why it should be kept low? 🙂
Sounds good, from what I already know about cables (mainly a-la-headphones).
A) The third wire is to make braiding easier
B) Foil is to keep electro-interference to a minimum.
I'll probably buy enough wire to do the hookups and build some speaker connects. Leftovers might even go towards building the amp.
As for the crossover, I'll ask some questions regarding the schematic once I actually get into the swing of things.
Thanks again!
Could you please explain what DCR is and why it should be kept low? 🙂
Sounds good, from what I already know about cables (mainly a-la-headphones).
A) The third wire is to make braiding easier
B) Foil is to keep electro-interference to a minimum.
I'll probably buy enough wire to do the hookups and build some speaker connects. Leftovers might even go towards building the amp.
As for the crossover, I'll ask some questions regarding the schematic once I actually get into the swing of things.
Thanks again!
We do need a glossary.
You could do some research on the web, most of these terms are self explanatory with a little experience.
DCR = DC Resistance, resistance is important because it robs power
( therefore SPL ) more importantly the speaker and amplifier need to be considered as a circuit, and the resistance of the speaker cable needs to taken into account as it can alter the "Q" of the circuit and introduce XO shift.
Also if the box is sealed and there is a highish resistance in the circuit it has the effect of making the speaker box appear smaller than it actually is and can make the speaker bass peaky and boomy, ported boxes also behave differently but I don't have the math to explain it.
Sorry!
Consider this, the minimum cross sectional area for speaker cables should be about 2.5mm<, ( that is 15 Ampere @ 240Volts )and keep the cables as short as practicable
You could do some research on the web, most of these terms are self explanatory with a little experience.
DCR = DC Resistance, resistance is important because it robs power
( therefore SPL ) more importantly the speaker and amplifier need to be considered as a circuit, and the resistance of the speaker cable needs to taken into account as it can alter the "Q" of the circuit and introduce XO shift.
Also if the box is sealed and there is a highish resistance in the circuit it has the effect of making the speaker box appear smaller than it actually is and can make the speaker bass peaky and boomy, ported boxes also behave differently but I don't have the math to explain it.
Sorry!
Consider this, the minimum cross sectional area for speaker cables should be about 2.5mm<, ( that is 15 Ampere @ 240Volts )and keep the cables as short as practicable
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