Heya, if anyone could help out here would be greatly appreciated. Absolute noob here.
I am looking to build a keystone and right now I am trying to figure out if I can justify the price difference between the 18SW115-4(€525,-) and the 18TBX100-4(€285,-).
I copied the hornresp inputs @Djim provided in post #130 as well as I could and put in the driver specs for the 18TBX100-4. The results are as follows.
Here compared to the SW115
A difference of +2,25DB for the sw115's in the 90hz range is the highest I could find. But seems like in general they mostly seem to outperform in the 75-100hz range with an average difference of +1db sloping to +2db in the 85-95hz range.
I've seen some people asking about these in the thread, so if my inputs are correct consider this the sim of the 18TBX100-4 drivers in the keystone. I hope someone can confirm I did everything right. As I read these results I am still kind of unsure. Let me know what you guys think!
Here's (hopefully all) my inputs for the sim. If anything else is needed to confirm the correct inputs let me know and I will update.
I am looking to build a keystone and right now I am trying to figure out if I can justify the price difference between the 18SW115-4(€525,-) and the 18TBX100-4(€285,-).
I copied the hornresp inputs @Djim provided in post #130 as well as I could and put in the driver specs for the 18TBX100-4. The results are as follows.
Here compared to the SW115
A difference of +2,25DB for the sw115's in the 90hz range is the highest I could find. But seems like in general they mostly seem to outperform in the 75-100hz range with an average difference of +1db sloping to +2db in the 85-95hz range.
I've seen some people asking about these in the thread, so if my inputs are correct consider this the sim of the 18TBX100-4 drivers in the keystone. I hope someone can confirm I did everything right. As I read these results I am still kind of unsure. Let me know what you guys think!
Here's (hopefully all) my inputs for the sim. If anything else is needed to confirm the correct inputs let me know and I will update.
Attachments
Depends what amp you got for it. The 18SW115 should be easily doung +2dB across the band, but you have to have the signal for it. Now it is not looking like much difference. It would be more interesting if you compared appropriate amount of bins, let's say 4 versus 3. Whole bins price, logistics of these, amp channels needed etc. Then you be the judge if ot is worth or not.
It depends on the deal. "Rarely" The SW and DS speakers can be found cheaper. Or there is middle ground of TBW series.
It all depends...
It depends on the deal. "Rarely" The SW and DS speakers can be found cheaper. Or there is middle ground of TBW series.
It all depends...
you need to sim both driver to their XMAX rating so to have a correct view of how much you gain
see the below graph
18SW115 hits xmax @1.1kW
VS 18TBX100 that hits xmax @500W
there are 7dB gap SPL between the 2 drivers
it means that you need 2 keystones driven @500W each
to match the output of 1 Keystone loaded with an 18SW115
does that make sense ?
see the below graph
18SW115 hits xmax @1.1kW
VS 18TBX100 that hits xmax @500W
there are 7dB gap SPL between the 2 drivers
it means that you need 2 keystones driven @500W each
to match the output of 1 Keystone loaded with an 18SW115
does that make sense ?
@hRy23 the big thing is that many many pro manufacturers use the 18SW115. So at the end of the day if you want that "pro" sound, go with the 18SW115. If that doesn't matter to you, then go with the other one.
The 18TBX simmed 500W reach 9mm xmax
the 18SW115 simmed 1.1kW reach14mm xmax
and if you see the graphs
there is almost 8dB variation between the 2
lets say 6dB in real world...
so the 18SW115 cab is 6dB "louder" than one 18TBX cab
so to match ... you need 2 18TBX cabs driven @Xmax thats 500 per cab
according to what HR shows
yes ?
No, Crashpc is closer to the truth, somewhere in the 3.5dB range.
If storage and transportation are put into the formula, still worth the extra expense, but two of the 18TBX100-4 will walk over one of the 18SW115-4 using less power, other than below 40Hz where the Bl makes more difference.
If X1 = 9 mm and X2 = 14 mm then the difference will be 20 * Log10(X2 / X1) = 20 * Log10(14 / 9) = 3.8377 dB
This can be confirmed using the Hornresp Maximum SPL tool. The default record was used, with resonances masked.
The first chart is for Xmax = 9mm and the second chart is for Xmax =14 mm.
The sample was taken at 100 Hz but the difference is the same at any frequency.
153.1393 - 149.3016 = 3.8377 dB
So why HR shows 7.x difference between the 2 drivers in the screen comparison I posted , I am missing some dots
Post #1803
Post #1803
Check the diaphragm displacement for each driver at the 35.71 Hz sample frequency.
I don't know exactly what your designs are but I am guessing that the displacement for the 18SW115 driver is likely to be somewhere near 7.9 mm and the displacement for the 18TBX100 driver is probably around 3.4 mm, which would give a difference of 20 * Log10(3.4 / 7.9) = -7.3230 dB which is not far off your figure of -7.3955 dB.
As has been pointed out, at the 35.71Hz the lower motor force of the TBX100 can't achieve the output of the SW115 around the lower impedance/excursion minima.
The maximum excursion for both drivers is ~49Hz, the difference in SPL level at that frequency is just as David said, ~3.8dB.
That said, the power difference to reach Xmax is considerable, the lower impedance SW115 requires 90volts, the TBX100 only 51.75.
Not sure what frequency you calculated those power figures, at the 37Hz Zmin (where the coil is most likely to burn) the TBX100 draws ~712 watts, the SW115 ~2390.
At 50Hz, the impedance of both is near 30 ohms, but the SW115 still draws ~3 times the power to make 3.8dB more SPL.
Art
Post #1803
HR shows 7.x difference between drivers at Xmax , so I figured 6db, and so 2 cabs of 18tbx make the SPL of 1 cab of 18sw115
HR shows 7.x difference between drivers at Xmax , so I figured 6db, and so 2 cabs of 18tbx make the SPL of 1 cab of 18sw115
maxolini
Here you go
Setup in a cardoid endfire 6x6 . The table off to right (black skirt) is the DJ area and it was -20 db. So tempted to build MORE...
GlaxzarTheFormidable
Also am looking at the Kraken. I enlarged the box to 506Lt and came out withHi Pass @27Hz -30Db and Low Pass @110 -30Db.
Would run up to 149v which pushes just over 135Db. A pair just over 140Db.
Hey Flip! nice to see you back around the SUB section!
i remember you was the one who made 12 SS15's right ?
that was called FLIP's DOZEN!!
have you sold them?
and what are the subs you posted on that pic ?
SS15's ?
so you have 6 in front and 6 in the back inverted phase and delayed
for the cardioid effect to work
i remember you was the one who made 12 SS15's right ?
that was called FLIP's DOZEN!!
have you sold them?
and what are the subs you posted on that pic ?
SS15's ?
so you have 6 in front and 6 in the back inverted phase and delayed
for the cardioid effect to work
and speaking of that ... bjorno and djk passed away
and they posted a lot on the Single Sheet thread (ss15)
and they posted a lot on the Single Sheet thread (ss15)
Did not know that they had passed. ):
The picture I posted is of those very subs and is from Feb this year.
That was the first time in .... well before covid that I used them! Normally I just use my 4 TH Mini's. It was OVERKILL but fun! Literally used less than a 3 amp draw total on their amps.
And yes they are setup as you said.
Apologies for off subject in this Ketstone thread.
Im am debating another build. Either 18" or 21" PAIR to fall somewhere between my current setups. Since this is an addiction I have to keep the $ tight.
I am currently leaning toward that Kraken. I have previously ever used 2 Dayton DVC 15" in a B.M. "House Wrecka" BP sub. Still have them. So assume the Kraken will be as good or better mechanically.
Design wise it (the Keystone) just seems to be a DTS style box.
IE Driver in throat vs driver in mouth. Or is that incorrect and why?
The picture I posted is of those very subs and is from Feb this year.
That was the first time in .... well before covid that I used them! Normally I just use my 4 TH Mini's. It was OVERKILL but fun! Literally used less than a 3 amp draw total on their amps.
And yes they are setup as you said.
Apologies for off subject in this Ketstone thread.
Im am debating another build. Either 18" or 21" PAIR to fall somewhere between my current setups. Since this is an addiction I have to keep the $ tight.
I am currently leaning toward that Kraken. I have previously ever used 2 Dayton DVC 15" in a B.M. "House Wrecka" BP sub. Still have them. So assume the Kraken will be as good or better mechanically.
Design wise it (the Keystone) just seems to be a DTS style box.
IE Driver in throat vs driver in mouth. Or is that incorrect and why?
The DSL DTS-10 and DTS-20 both have drivers placed around one meter distant from the mouth.
The driver in the Keystone is centered over the upper portion of the mouth.
Moving it's mouth downward results in slightly less low frequency output and upper bandwidth nulls.
Yeah! start a thread about it
and post your new diagrams and plans
have you seen the FTA30 thread where EPA
moded XOC1 TH18 to hit 30 flat
crescendo built 4 of those with 18SW115's
anyway
welcome back !
my friend