Wavebourn said:
KBK answered already: John explained everything non-verbally, like a Zen master!
Did you get the explanation because I must have missed it 😉
regards
trev
A spectrum of electro-mechanical, electro-acoustical transducer is very different from that of a strong FB suppressed distortion (low order reduced and grass of high orders appears), and it is evaluated by ears and brains, not THD+N meter.
KBK said:
John has been teaching you the highest of the high end: The use of your ears and brain -together (for some -it never happens) in audio design, to further your own attempts and works. It's a subtle but fundamental thing. Where the thought initiates from, and how it travels, how it gets there-the result but specifically the trail....begets the final result.[snip]
Must respectfully disagree. I am the one who repeatedly posted information about perception, the brain processes that ultimately make you aware of a sound picked up by your ears, and how that is integrated with many other sensory and non-sensory inputs.
John has not explained anything on that matter except often implying that those of us that disagree with him are either deaf or prejudiced.
You may want to review your reading.
Jan Didden
bear said:I don't subscribe to the silly idea that there is a direction that my wire or any wire needs to be "broken in" to... fwiw.
As far as any other "break-in" proceedures go, my suspicion is that they likely fall into the category of annealing... although ymmv.
As a professional metallurgist, I can state pretty categorically it isn't annealing, unless your running enough current to heat it at least 60°C or so above ambient, where solid state diffusion in pure silver is at least theoretically possible, albeit slow on the order of the geologic time scale.
A much more likely possibility is the formation of a VERY thin layer of metastable silver oxysulfides, which curiously exhibits semiconductor properties. It has been theorized that this layer could have some interesting quantum effects realated to the depth of the skin effect that occurs with high frequency signals. However, to my knowledge there has been no practical experimentation to confirm or contradict this.
The geek in me couldn't resist talking about something I actually know something about

Cheers, Terry
PMA said:A spectrum of electro-mechanical, electro-acoustical transducer is very different from that of a strong FB suppressed distortion (low order reduced and grass of high orders appears), and it is evaluated by ears and brains, not THD+N meter.
These spectrum's don't look too good to me
http://www.linkwitzlab.com/mid_dist.htm
Any ideas how to eradicate or reduce it ??
regards
trev
KBK said:
John has been teaching you the highest of the high end: The use of your ears and brain -together (for some -it never happens) in audio design, to further your own attempts and works. It's a subtle but fundamental thing. Where the thought initiates from, and how it travels, how it gets there-the result but specifically the trail....begets the final result.
Subtle like a 75 year old Aikido master of diminutive stature, who can brush aside 350 pound monsters-and look like he's not even moving. He's attempting to teach you some of the audio zen-but I'm afraid that some just don't get it. A shame, as when it comes to the Highest of the High end-that is what separates the wheat from the chaff.
Well said.
Trevor White said:
What about distortion in loudspeakers ? Have the gurus managed to eradicate that ? What is the audio-zen regarding that ?
Loudspeakers designers are the ones to deal with loudspeakers distortion, while audio designers are the ones to deal with distortion in audio gear.
Anyhow, you seem to argue some of John Curl statements, in the guise of innocent questions. It is perfectly okay to argue anything and everything, it is the guise which I happen to dislike. To my view, better say whatever in your mind right out.
Re: Re: ... turkey for dinner?
What formal qualification makes one a successful audio designer?
What formal qualification is needed to appreciate good sounding audio gear?
Trevor White said:
And by the way do you have any formal qualifications ??
What formal qualification makes one a successful audio designer?
What formal qualification is needed to appreciate good sounding audio gear?
Joshua_G said:
Loudspeakers designers are the ones to deal with loudspeakers distortion, while audio designers are the ones to deal with distortion in audio gear.
Anyhow, you seem to argue some of John Curl statements, in the guise of innocent questions. It is perfectly okay to argue anything and everything, it is the guise which I happen to dislike. To my view, better say whatever in your mind right out.
I thought audio design encompassed all things audio which includes loudspeakers.
I didn't understand your second statement.
regards
trev
AFAIK, most loudspeaker designers don't design amplifiers and vice versa.
Indeed, amplifier designers should take into account the way loudspeakers behave, not only its distortion, which is why listening tests are indispensable.
Indeed, amplifier designers should take into account the way loudspeakers behave, not only its distortion, which is why listening tests are indispensable.
Re: Re: Re: ... turkey for dinner?
It doesn't guarantee success nor is is it a requisite to use and enjoy audio equipment but does provide a better understanding of the issues and devices involved and avoids you getting caught up in things which don't really make a lot of difference like bits of wire 😉
regards
trev
Joshua_G said:
What formal qualification makes one a successful audio designer?
What formal qualification is needed to appreciate good sounding audio gear?
It doesn't guarantee success nor is is it a requisite to use and enjoy audio equipment but does provide a better understanding of the issues and devices involved and avoids you getting caught up in things which don't really make a lot of difference like bits of wire 😉
regards
trev
Joshua_G said:AFAIK, most loudspeaker designers don't design amplifiers and vice versa.
Indeed, amplifier designers should take into account the way loudspeakers behave, not only its distortion, which is why listening tests are indispensable.
And loudspeaker designers should take into account the way amplifier behave (and their limitations) instead of manufacturing so called 'high end' tooters with impedance dips of 0.3Ohm and bellow.
Re: Re: Re: Re: ... turkey for dinner?
To my ears, there are differences between different wires and cables.
Trevor White said:
It doesn't guarantee success nor is is it a requisite to use and enjoy audio equipment but does provide a better understanding of the issues and devices involved and avoids you getting caught up in things which don't really make a lot of difference like bits of wire 😉
regards
trev
To my ears, there are differences between different wires and cables.
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ... turkey for dinner?
What does that prove?
That they are different?
to measuring instrumentation, there are differences between different wires and cables.Joshua_G said:To my ears, there are differences between different wires and cables.
What does that prove?
That they are different?
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ... turkey for dinner?
Was that evaluated in a double blind environment or were you well aware of what you were listening to ?
regards
trev
Joshua_G said:
To my ears, there are differences between different wires and cables.
Was that evaluated in a double blind environment or were you well aware of what you were listening to ?
regards
trev
Joshua_G said:AFAIK, most loudspeaker designers don't design amplifiers and vice versa.
Indeed, amplifier designers should take into account the way loudspeakers behave, not only its distortion, which is why listening tests are indispensable.
Is that the rule or the exception and why should it be mutually exclusive ??
regards
trev
Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: ... turkey for dinner?
Blind tests, which I specified earlier in this thread. I didn't know which cable I heard at any given time. I even didn't know if it was switched to the same cable, or to a different one.
Trevor White said:
Was that evaluated in a double blind environment or were you well aware of what you were listening to ?
regards
trev
Blind tests, which I specified earlier in this thread. I didn't know which cable I heard at any given time. I even didn't know if it was switched to the same cable, or to a different one.
Trevor White said:
Is that the rule or the exception and why should it be mutually exclusive ??
regards
trev
It seems that different people specializes in different areas. It takes years of learning and experience to specialize and to excel in any given area.
Trevor White said:
What about distortion in loudspeakers ? Have the gurus managed to eradicate that ? What is the audio-zen regarding that ?
regards
trev
I believe these are current SOTA
http://www.event1.com/
cheers
T
Re: Re: Re: Re: ... turkey for dinner?
On an average system it is a waste of time to worry about "things
which don't really make a lot of difference" but on a SOTA system (which this thread is about) everything became important, you will be surprised to hear what influence "bits of wire" can have.
André
Trevor White said:It doesn't guarantee success nor is is it a requisite to use and enjoy audio equipment but does provide a better understanding of the issues and devices involved and avoids you getting caught up in things which don't really make a lot of difference like bits of wire 😉
On an average system it is a waste of time to worry about "things
which don't really make a lot of difference" but on a SOTA system (which this thread is about) everything became important, you will be surprised to hear what influence "bits of wire" can have.
André
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