I'm not - I didn't say that...
From an engineering standpoint I 100% disagree!
But, as usual, I am very happy for your subjective views - in the end music enjoyment is all subjective, and that's a good thing!
You misinterpreted my thoughts, I think.
It is not psychoacoustic that I criticised, but the lack of knowledge about the way our brains compute the sounds. That can be so different between individuals. We have no idea of the thresholds of audibility when HIFI is in concern (Signal noise, HD, IM, slew rate) etc.
When some find a difference between 100 and 120dB of signal/noise DACs, it seems surrealistic. A mirage ? I don't think so.
The problem, as I see the things is that people seems to ignore what we are doing. An illusionist's job which uses, like photography, our brain and its culture to make us believe (with efforts) in a pseudo reality.
Accuracy? Yes, when the illusion works. Fidelity? Never.
These are the limits I put on objectivism and measures.
For example, when two high-performance amps sound differently, is it the sound they produce or the way our personal speakers mostly different are excited (damping factor etc.).
Quite a few are listening to vinyl records while hammering at something that might be coffin.....
What about considering Feynman's line:
"The first principle is that you must not fool yourself—and you are the easiest person to fool."
Which by the way means that you've to constantly test your own believes.
If you think you are too smart to fool yourself, you're most probably fooling yourself.
If you've problems to admit when having made an error, you are fooling yourself.
Up to now you refused to educate yourself on psychoacoustics or on sensory testing (and no, you were not forced to read "thousands" of papers) and so, it's still mainly a belief but just another one, isn't it?
And why has it to be a "Purifi".
Weren't Icepower or UCD-amps good enough in your context?
Probably, I don't know if what I see as red is what you see as red, but it makes no difference.
Yes we do
nor me, does it matter?
Accuracy to the recording? Fidelity to the original sound event?
The Purifi is the latest and is more or less neck and neck with the Benchmark AHB2 on S/N and distortion measurements. If there is something that makes it 'sterile' that is not show in any measurements published yet. These two and the Ncore appear to be closest as you can get to wire with gain. I've not seen a credible argument as to why they are not better than most out there unless people actually like a sonic signature.
Of course High end is more about pride of ownership than sound quality these days . Same as BMW are wallowly fat cars rather than the 'ultimate driving machine'. Look and feel sells more than sound quality IMO.
Of course High end is more about pride of ownership than sound quality these days . Same as BMW are wallowly fat cars rather than the 'ultimate driving machine'. Look and feel sells more than sound quality IMO.
I think accuracy wins out in electronics as well as Mastering Monitors. But, it is true, not many EE types I know have spent time in acoustics T&M ...
THx-RNMarsh
Richard poo-pooing measurements ? The guy probably the best equipped in measuring instruments of the forum ? Are-you serious ?
It is not because we think (I'm sure I can say we) that our lack of understanding of the psycho acoustic effects of each factor we are able to measure, measurements that, anyway, are just focusing on the whole thing across a keyhole, that we don't rely on them for what we think they tell.
Who simplifie ? Me or SYN08 that believe that, when an amp measure 0.0003% of distortion, the die is cast ?
On my side, I have dedicated my life to music recording and reproducing. Took care to learn electronic like a race driver should learn mechanic like Bruce McLaren.
Why does he treats me with such disrespect ? When he probably has 10 times less knowledge of sound reproduction than I have in his field: electronics (half of my professional life) ?
The few big names in audio design that I had the chance to meet, or that I could work with, did not show such contempt for my experience. Quite the contrary.
As for our degree of intelligence ("idiots"), who manifests the most: Him, and his certainties or me, in my constant quest for better understanding and my high uncertainties ?
I was sure that we'll finish to understand each other ;-)
But accuracy to the recording (if you include the mix) ? Yes, I think it is possible at least in a pleasing way.
Yes, of course, the only thing we can really attempt to reproduce IMHO although not others I think, who seem to believe they can get closer to the original event through manipulations/distortions of some kind. Perhaps they can, but......
To sum up, the constant progress of our technologies, and the serious that electronic engineers have dedicated to science, without any doubt, contributed more to the progress of hifi than the indiscriminate groping of some audio gurus.
Just plug a headset into your smartphone, to be convinced.
The fact remains that it stay as limited as the progress that science has been able to bring to agricultural production and industrial cooking.
When we talk about gastronomy, the 5 stars go to the great chefs. All of which combine a serious and precise technique with lot of measurements, and ... constant attention to their feelings.
Just plug a headset into your smartphone, to be convinced.
The fact remains that it stay as limited as the progress that science has been able to bring to agricultural production and industrial cooking.
When we talk about gastronomy, the 5 stars go to the great chefs. All of which combine a serious and precise technique with lot of measurements, and ... constant attention to their feelings.
Bose is out of context. Limited to high-End of best effort and performance possible. Bose is not in the running for High-End discussion.
-RM
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Scottjoplin, I don't know of an example where a serious sound engineer didn't produce a much better recording than what you call "original event". (which often does not even exist as such.)
Perhaps with the exception of a piano, played by a very great musician, in a room with ideal acoustics for a listener located in an ideal place ?
meaning trying to find a particular 'like' which will sell to a target group of people. Sure, if you narrow down the distortion characteristics to what a small group might like, test equipment can get you there fsst.
The only way to get a really largest group acceptance is a more accurate product and T&M is needed for that as well as listening. Listening can uncover engineering issues that need addressing. More testing.
THx-RNMarsh
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Its a nice DIY project for some people. 🙂
The F5 might be accurate enough. Looks good on paper.
-Richard
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Billshurv, why are-you so much concerned by "High end" ?
I'm not and don't know exactly what it means.
My system was built as a professional tool. Hand made or modified, DIY in each and every detail. To can judge harshly of the quality of my mixes.
There is nothing to "look at" in my listening room. Apart my speakers that I tried to make as good looking as possible, because I was not able to hide them behind a curtain and was married at this time.
Maybe the time I spent to my system played a role in my divorce ? ;-)
Recently, I replaced all my awful stuff (Tuner, turntable, CD, DAT, minidisk, analog tape recorder, miniK7, preamplifier, amps) by a hidden little box connected on WIFI to my PC.
I always refuse to make listenings to people asking-me to demonstrate my system. Pretending something is out of order for the moment ;-)
But have/had, great moments, with friends (mostly musicians), listening to some records. We talk about music, not hifi. Sometimes, they can say it sounds great, nothing more, and I think they are talking about the whole thing, mix + reproduction.
In fact, we don't care so much: 90% of the time, I listen music in my car, in my office on my PC litle sound system, or, walking in the country, to my smartphone's MP3s with a Porta pro.
Between you and me, the hifi, now that I'm retired, it's just a fun activity, like building the Sacrada Familia of Barcelona with matches.
A fight against the inevitable selinity.
Hifi is dead. 95% of the shops doen't exists any more, It is all about AMHA zone and E-beh.
Young generation do not own a hifi system and don't care about. Dead horse.
Age ? Or the fact that my teachers at school already criticized me on this point ? ;-)
I never meet him, but Papa Nelson looks like a gentleman, a nice fellow and a beautiful freak.
A comics hero with little hearts in each "bubbles" .
Never heard any of his gears, but I love its design philosophy (that i don't necessarily share).
I bet we can feel the love he put in it in the way they sound ;-)
The photos of his speakers make me melt.
The schematics of its amps remind me of my first emotions when, in college, I tried to built my first galena radio. Respect and love !
YouTube
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Not really a relevant comparison, you pay a good chef for his subjective opinion - his idea of great food.
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