John Curl's Blowtorch preamplifier part III

[Tournesol]

I mentioned to Richard that the best distortion numbers did not mean the best sound (which he does not agree with) but this was confirmed by multiple independent listeners.

Best sound or best accuracy ?

 

[syn08]

Humans at a fine grain level are much more complicated to understand than any human engineered product so far.

That's a very common stance adapted by "high audio designers".

In fact, any sentient being would rather accept that the limits of hearing performances were reached back in the JC glory days, almost 50 years ago. And since, the High End Audio industry is massaging a dead horse. As much as you dislike it, today's young generation is just hitting the last nails in the coffin.

 

[syn08]

Eh? As far as I was aware he was still alive and kicking and developing newer and better class D designs?

Sure, did I say otherwise? Although I have no idea where he's going from 0.0003% 😀.

 

[billshurv]

You said 'The late Bruno Putzeys'. Late usually means dead in this context.



But yes the Purifi stuff does appear to be in a spec war with Benchmark and Hypex with no one else being within 10dB of them.

 

[syn08]

Wrong again.

Measurement gives approximately right results, just not exactly right results in most cases.

A truly good design sounds good to a lot of people and usually measures pretty well too.

You are playing semantics, I don't like this game. Better listen to the superior sound of the 7805 in your DAC and don't forget to gloss about in your sales pitch. It could be a good differentiator vs. those unwashed EEs that use low noise LDOs.

 

[syn08]

You said 'The late Bruno Putzeys'. Late usually means dead in this context.

But yes the Purifi stuff does appear to be in a spec war with Benchmark and Hypex with no one else being within 10dB of them.

the late Bruno Putzey's Hypex NCore.

And I meant Purifi, not NCore, my bad. Purifi is also Mr. Putzey.

 

[scottjoplin]

The legendary NCore 🙂

 

[scottjoplin]

Best sound or best accuracy ?

To Richard they are the same, I asked him, but didn't get very far when I asked how he determined accuracy.

 

[jam]

syn08,

Your definition of good amp design might differ from mine.........but the question begs to be asked if it gives you pleasure. Different criteria for different people but it ultimately comes to how well it does in the market place, or acceptance of your target audience.

Jam

 

[syn08]

Different criteria for different people but it ultimately comes to how well it does in the market place, or acceptance of your target audience.

Only if you are in business. It’s much easier to sell a story than a spec. The other way around in any other engineering branch that I can think of, including the home appliance products.

 

[scott wurcer]

I mentioned to Richard that the best distortion numbers did not mean the best sound (which he does not agree with) but this was confirmed by multiple independent listeners. Strangely Richard declined to listen to my design or compare it to another unit he had on hand. He only wanted to comment on measured distortion numbers.

I'm afraid this is an impasse, and the gap has even widened over the years. Mr. Marsh would, like others, have too much to lose in a DBT. He is not alone, the number crunchers everywhere are amazingly pig headed.

 

[billshurv]

Ah Gotcha. I guess Bruno is having lots of fun combining DSP+class D+new driver designs to try and actually improve things so possibly doesn't care that he's specced himself into a corner 🙂

 

[jam]

Tournesoln,

Great question.................my answer if that you can't really separate the two.

The common misconception is lower distortion and wide bandwidth is more accurate, back to my example of failed audio products.

The accepted definition for more accurate is far to simplified to make any sense in the real world.

Jam

 

[Evenharmonics]

Completely unwarranted for someone to start yelling about BS.

That tends to happen when you post extraordinary claims unsupported by extraordinary evidence.

Better, still doesn't mean much though 😉

Of course it means much, to boutique audio business.

good design needs a balance of measurement and careful listening.

Careful listening meaning the side by side comparison, I suppose?

Wrong again.

Measurement gives approximately right results, just not exactly right results in most cases.

A truly good design sounds good to a lot of people and usually measures pretty well too.

If you've ever understood the term "hi fi" in sound reproduction system, the performance judgment criteria is on the level of fidelity. Sounding good to you or to Joe Schmo doesn't mean anything in that arena.

That's a very common stance adapted by "high audio designers".

In fact, any sentient being would rather accept that the limits of hearing performances were reached back in the JC glory days, almost 50 years ago. And since, the High End Audio industry is massaging a dead horse. As much as you dislike it, today's young generation is just hitting the last nails in the coffin.

Given that DACs weren't around 50 years ago, the limits of hearing performances for DACs were reached in the 90's. And yes, high end DAC businesses are massaging a dead horse.

but it ultimately comes to how well it does in the market place, or acceptance of your target audience.

That's the reality because after all, it's a business.

 

[billshurv]

syn08,

but the question begs to be asked if it gives you pleasure.

Oddly Music gives me pleasure. Making things gives me pleasure (which is why I am here). Not sure an amplifier has ever pleasured me. Too many sharp corners for a start 😛

 

[jam]

syn08,

Do you drive a Toyota to get from point A to B or a BMW to have fun while doing it. If the Toyota does it for you, more power to you, but to me and a whole number of other people.........we beg to differ.🙂

Jam

 

[Evenharmonics]

Mr. Marsh would, like others, have too much to lose in a DBT. He is not alone, the number crunchers everywhere are amazingly pig headed.

He's one of many and not just electronics but also those who write about it.

 

[jam]

Evenharmonics,

Yes of course, and many hours of it.......

Yes it is a business (entertainment according to Pass 🙂 )...but we cater to the enthusiast and not so much the casual listener, which is a totally different market.
Jam

 

[Evenharmonics]

Do you drive a Toyota to get from point A to B or a BMW to have fun while doing it. If the Toyota does it for you, more power to you, but me and a whole number of other people.........we beg to differ.🙂

It's a free country and I'm all for people enjoying what they spend their money on. What do you think about those who join internet forums and post all sorts of audibility claims? That's not same activity as going from point A to B in a car of their desire, is it?

 

[syn08]

Ah Gotcha. I guess Bruno is having lots of fun combining DSP+class D+new driver designs to try and actually improve things so possibly doesn't care that he's specced himself into a corner 🙂

Also, Bruno left Hypex for the new Purifi. Not sure if this means the death of the NCore.