Yes I chose those numbers, but not to add them. You are talking about something else entirely.I chose those because you were using them, but pick any numbers you want. Anything that can fit under the LPFs can be reproduced (ideally) perfectly. Only the filters are interesting.
Always the best,
Chris
Jn
Nice work, thank you.OK, it turns out I have an older audio editing software on one of our machines that allows me to modulate one audio file by another.
I generated dithered 5kHz and 20kHz -10dBFS test tones and then created 20kHz modulated by 5kHz test file. Exactly as what Jn was talking about. All this at 88.2kHz 24bits (HiRez).
Spectrum of that signal is below (64k FFT). As expected, one can see 20kHz tone and sidebands at 15kHz and 25kHz.
(Ignore the "grass" at around -145dB, it is probably truncation distortion due to plain 32bit float operation and no dithering to 24bits at the output of that particular software).
Then I loaded the test file in another editor and applied two LP filters in a row at 22.050kHz with Q=0.7 and slope of 48dB/oct.
As one can see, only amplitude of sidebands have changed - there are no new tones there 😉
Then, in a way to apply the "brutal" brickwall filter, I took the same test file and downsampled it to 44.1kHz. Then I upsampled it back to 88.2kHz so that it could be better observed on analyzer.
The upper sideband at 25kHz is gone, but, again, I see no new tones and no frequency shift.
Test files (20 second snippets) are here for about five days:
WeTransfer
Analyze away!
Now what do all three look like in the time domain.
Also, perhaps you have an alternative explanation to explain why Han's output was 17.5 kHz. If so, tell us. Thanks for your work. (oh, and don't worry about the actual sum math on my 17.5k/22.5k being 2 sin (20k)cos(2.5k)), your frequencies work just as well.
Jn
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So, you had managed to hide your contemptuous and hostile nature and your superiority complex from your employers for 40 years?You may be surprised I made it through a very successful 40 years career, being now too close to retirement than I would like.
Congratulations.
I told myself, in the same time, that, when I was still active, I had no time to go on forums in order to treat others as idiots.
It was the flaws on how you set up your test equipment that I and another member pointed out repeatedly and yet you repeatedly forge ahead with your findings from your flawed test to form your argument. And you say something about ignorance, eh. 🙄Is this a popularity contest? Why bring that into the conversation? It sounds so ignorant when talk like that from you or anyone brings in such comments.
It is a way that you can get a clue or clues by using your ears only. Of course, you are free to use test equipment instead or do it all on paper. Some people might want to try it first and see what differences there are and why. By asking silly questions already answered make me wonder if you know what you are talking about at all.
Nice work, thank you.
Now what do all three look like in the time domain.
But these are continuous sine waves not a raised cos pulse of 20K?
So, you had managed to hide your contemptuous and hostile nature and your superiority complex from your employers for 40 years?
Worked for me, results ($$$) always smooth things over. I often had open contempt for managers that had absolutely no clue as to what was going on on a technical level (wink,wink,nudge,nudge).
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Analyze away!
In the real world, where does this modulation come from?
Always the best,
Chris
Why do you want to see that, it'll only confuse you? 😉Now what do all three look like in the time domain.
But these are continuous sine waves not a raised cos pulse of 20K?
I know, but beggars can't be choosers. At least he did something using two files. The possible tests he can do are endless.
Jn
So, you had managed to hide your contemptuous and hostile nature and your superiority complex from your employers for 40 years?
Much easier than hiding being programatically and proudly clueless (and the usually associated contempt for knowledge).
Nope. Nothing's there. (175Hz and 225Hz mixed).
You do realize there is a time domain, no?
Jn
It was the flaws on how you set up your test equipment that I and another member pointed out repeatedly and yet you repeatedly forge ahead with your findings from your flawed test to form your argument. And you say something about ignorance, eh. 🙄
Be specific. there were comments which are wrong and others misunderstood.
It is, BTW, to help you tell how accurate your repo system is. Starting with a well known voice recording compared to the actual in room spoken voice of that well known persons voice. ... I thought I addressed the major concerns in record/play technique and setup. How well you do the process, as i described, will give you areas to improve. Then use a cymbal etc. If they sound the same or as close as you care to get, then try CD vs 24/96+ and compare to live voice or instrument sound.
Use close mic, omni, flat on axis and listen also in near field. Both will minimise room influences. You can also use headphone for repo. if you dont think your ear will be able to discriminate well enough to tell your level of repo accuracy. You can EQ the headphone flat.
That should be more than enough hand holding for you to take it and do it well with your own added expertise.
THx-RNMarsh
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You do realize there is a time domain, no?
Again, just because something looks like what might be loosely referred to as a 20kHz waveform does not mean that there is strictly a frequency there. Likewise, seeing a spiritual figure in grilled cheese sandwich does not mean there is an actual figure of any type there. Both it and your 20kHz signal are products of human visual perception.
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Nope. Nothing's there. (175Hz and 225Hz mixed).
You do realize there is a time domain, no?
Nice. From Nyquist denier, to Fourier denier, quite an evolution in two weeks.
Hint: the Fourier transform is a bijective transformation between two function spaces L(R^p,q), easy to prove the injectiveness and surjectiveness of the direct and reverse Fourier transforms. Therefore, for each signal there is a unique spectrum, and the other way around. No exceptions, even for time/bandwidth limitations.
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Again, just because something looks like what might be loosely called a 20kHz waveform, does not mean that there is strictly a frequency there. Just as seeing a spiritual figure in grilled cheese sandwich does not mean there is an actual figure of any type there. Both it and your 20kHz signal are products of human visual perception.
The use of continuous sines and large windows guarantees the results he is showing.
That will not be what happens with short bursts. Just go back and look at my PSP analysis. Han's started with 20khz, ended up with 17.5 kHz.
Throwing up simulations which are entirely different is strawmanish.
Jn
Possibly due to using a phone (away for work), but I see you refer to Hans' work, but I can't find it... About Time a link was posted perhaps? 🙂
A scrape flutter in tape recorders perhaps?In the real world, where does this modulation come from?
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