PV issues
Yes, this is yet another bad side-effect of off-shoring to countries with lax pollution standards. This is one of the reasons they can make panels so cheaply: they have little or no waste-treatment.
As Dir. of Engineering for AMI, LLC I had to purchase and operate in-house waste treatment facilities as well as contract for post-treatment of waste we couldn't handle in-house. I estimate the two cost an additional $250,000/yr which I know for a fact my off-shore competitors did not have to pay.
In this regard your statement that PV are "O.K. (in one sense) as long as they're made in Asia." is backwards. Semiconductor manufacturing (the process used in PV as well) in the US, as is the case with many manufacturing in the US, has trouble competing in part due to the high cost of waste treatment here. In Western countries we have decided as a society that this pollution needs to be addressed and the cost of doing so is tacked on to the product. By purchasing cheaper imported panels from countries with lower or zero pollution standards we are effectively saying we are OK with pollution...as long as it is not in our backyard, which I find hypocritical. Buying panels made in the US helps ensure the resulting pollution meets US standards.
The other straw man commonly used against PV is energy payback. The return on energy to manufacture is about 4 years. This is another case where the better the panel the better the return over it's service life. If a cheap panel and a high quality one take about the same amount of energy to make, but one lasts 8-10 years and another 25-40 years, the return is much higher for the HQ PV panel.
Data is your friend.
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
Yes, this is yet another bad side-effect of off-shoring to countries with lax pollution standards. This is one of the reasons they can make panels so cheaply: they have little or no waste-treatment.
As Dir. of Engineering for AMI, LLC I had to purchase and operate in-house waste treatment facilities as well as contract for post-treatment of waste we couldn't handle in-house. I estimate the two cost an additional $250,000/yr which I know for a fact my off-shore competitors did not have to pay.
In this regard your statement that PV are "O.K. (in one sense) as long as they're made in Asia." is backwards. Semiconductor manufacturing (the process used in PV as well) in the US, as is the case with many manufacturing in the US, has trouble competing in part due to the high cost of waste treatment here. In Western countries we have decided as a society that this pollution needs to be addressed and the cost of doing so is tacked on to the product. By purchasing cheaper imported panels from countries with lower or zero pollution standards we are effectively saying we are OK with pollution...as long as it is not in our backyard, which I find hypocritical. Buying panels made in the US helps ensure the resulting pollution meets US standards.
The other straw man commonly used against PV is energy payback. The return on energy to manufacture is about 4 years. This is another case where the better the panel the better the return over it's service life. If a cheap panel and a high quality one take about the same amount of energy to make, but one lasts 8-10 years and another 25-40 years, the return is much higher for the HQ PV panel.
Data is your friend.
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
Depends on what the walls and ceiling are made of. I have 4" of insulation in addition to the masonry. The attic has 24-32" of insulation. The windows are as efficient as they can be. The largest heat leaks are the doors and I just replaced those. Front door I made, the rear is a commercial product that is basically foam filled steel. As burglars are more likely to try the rear door, steel seemed to be a good choice. The front has a nice bit of stained glass with a polycarbonate layer. I made the door out of hard maple just under 2" thick. Weights a bit under 200 pounds.
Now my electric bill runs $25-$45 per month. The natural gas bill is their minimum charge except in winter where it once actually got above $100! these days I try to remember to close all the windows once fall passes.
My cost of insulation was around $27,000, with a tax credit as I recall of 1/3.
Howie,
When I bought my test panel I don't think the offshore folks were in the game yet. Suspect the high end folks have also learned a bit about what hail can do. Part of the need to replace the front door was wind damage.
On a bad day, mine are about 450W quiescent.........are we eco-criminals ?
4'' brick masonry outer wall, 4'' brick masonry inside wall, no heat bridges.
3'' cavity filled gap-less with resin-bonded polystyrene pellets, no vent holes.
(cellars, 1st floor, 2nd floor, 3d floor, attic, 45k cbft. 1k is as relative as 1m. I'm better at dodging taxes than bullets)
well currently the chamelion uses more juice than my amp. That may be about to change.
20p for an evenings listening power is good value. Your DL-102 costs more than that to run!
I guess I find all this energy consumption stuff pretty amusing--forget how energy intensive it is to heat/cool your house. No heater/AC here given our moderate: think gas+electricity (in an expensive market for the US) is around $25* for my roommate and I.
Invariably that's all the fridge. And, yes, the girlfriend just about dies being here in the "winter".
*You pay for it in plenty of other ways, however.
Invariably that's all the fridge. And, yes, the girlfriend just about dies being here in the "winter".
*You pay for it in plenty of other ways, however.
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Energy Efficiency
So true! In the summer waste heat you pay for inside you must pay an extra 15-25% to move it outside depending on the efficiency of the AC unit.
Of course the flip side of that coin is in the winter, audio equipment and refrigerators alike become close 100% efficient. (from the standpoint of making heat you would otherwise pay for).
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill
www.wxyc.org
So true! In the summer waste heat you pay for inside you must pay an extra 15-25% to move it outside depending on the efficiency of the AC unit.
Of course the flip side of that coin is in the winter, audio equipment and refrigerators alike become close 100% efficient. (from the standpoint of making heat you would otherwise pay for).
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill
www.wxyc.org
energy efficiency
LOLOL I guess you had not lived in the US South....or you are a reptilian form of life! A conventional home here without AC can easily exceed 100° to 110°F (38°C to 44°C) or more in the summer at 80-90% humidity. If you look at traditional Southern US house design before AC became available, a large front porch with rocking chairs was deemed necessary. The evaporative cooling from rocking back and forth outside is a very efficient way to toss off BTUs!
Some rich individuals had gas AC before the distribution of electricity. They would have a central flue open to the top floor of the house in which they lit a gas burner. The resulting upward flow of hot air created an updraft in the house, pulling cooler night air into the windows of the first floor.
BTW I never used AC until I moved from Massachusetts to NC.
Cheers!
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
LOLOL I guess you had not lived in the US South....or you are a reptilian form of life! A conventional home here without AC can easily exceed 100° to 110°F (38°C to 44°C) or more in the summer at 80-90% humidity. If you look at traditional Southern US house design before AC became available, a large front porch with rocking chairs was deemed necessary. The evaporative cooling from rocking back and forth outside is a very efficient way to toss off BTUs!
Some rich individuals had gas AC before the distribution of electricity. They would have a central flue open to the top floor of the house in which they lit a gas burner. The resulting upward flow of hot air created an updraft in the house, pulling cooler night air into the windows of the first floor.
BTW I never used AC until I moved from Massachusetts to NC.
Cheers!
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
Thermal inertia.
My previous house had 16'' thick reinforced concrete walls.
Cool during the summer, affordable to heat in winter.
Only hot area was the 2nd level, welded trendy round alloy roof construction, turned a sauna from 9am during a summer, unbearable without hvac.
Your house likely is a cardboard box, that has to be air-conned 24/7 during/beyond the summer season.
Some live in hurricane/tsunami areas and wait till they drown (or wiped out by a tornado)
Others do not reside in hurricane/tsunami risk areas, only flooded once, but live surrounded on all sides by dykes and raisable bridges that can handle 40-50ft waves.
Such as me : http://www.kierharingvliet.nl/binar...ringvliet/common/1306052-haringvliet_0000.jpg
Each to his own.
(you're welcome to visit me at my other adress, they say it's pretty damp there. Personally, I find the climate there more comfortable at all times of the year, than quite a few days/nights in july and august on the Euro side)
[I did 120F on Sicily. Galveston TX is a pussy]
My previous house had 16'' thick reinforced concrete walls.
Cool during the summer, affordable to heat in winter.
Only hot area was the 2nd level, welded trendy round alloy roof construction, turned a sauna from 9am during a summer, unbearable without hvac.
Your house likely is a cardboard box, that has to be air-conned 24/7 during/beyond the summer season.
Some live in hurricane/tsunami areas and wait till they drown (or wiped out by a tornado)
Others do not reside in hurricane/tsunami risk areas, only flooded once, but live surrounded on all sides by dykes and raisable bridges that can handle 40-50ft waves.
Such as me : http://www.kierharingvliet.nl/binar...ringvliet/common/1306052-haringvliet_0000.jpg
Each to his own.
(you're welcome to visit me at my other adress, they say it's pretty damp there. Personally, I find the climate there more comfortable at all times of the year, than quite a few days/nights in july and august on the Euro side)
[I did 120F on Sicily. Galveston TX is a pussy]
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Never visited my mom's side of the family during a Sirocco. Heard plenty of stories, nonetheless.
Never mind the cold, in places which people say are hot.
Ask Mr Wahab how Algeria can be like (me couple of Algerian friends)
NC Temps
Um, that is the outside temperature, Jacco. I was talking about inside the house, where it can rise 10°F to 15°F (5°C to 8°C) above that in some older non-AC homes.
And your assumption regarding my house is wrong. It is only 15 years old, 6" stud walls with vapor barrier and R17 insulation, and the ceiling joists are filled with 10" of blown in cellulose for R30 insulation value. Even so we set the AC for an inside temp of 80°F (27°C) and the AC can run for a total of 4 hours per day, of course cycling much less frequently during the night.
Still, I know of people who can sit in 100°F (38°C) humid weather and not seem to break a sweat. Not me, I was raised in the north and can stay warm under most conditions, but staying cool is much harder for me...I guess we are all different.
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
Um, that is the outside temperature, Jacco. I was talking about inside the house, where it can rise 10°F to 15°F (5°C to 8°C) above that in some older non-AC homes.
And your assumption regarding my house is wrong. It is only 15 years old, 6" stud walls with vapor barrier and R17 insulation, and the ceiling joists are filled with 10" of blown in cellulose for R30 insulation value. Even so we set the AC for an inside temp of 80°F (27°C) and the AC can run for a total of 4 hours per day, of course cycling much less frequently during the night.
Still, I know of people who can sit in 100°F (38°C) humid weather and not seem to break a sweat. Not me, I was raised in the north and can stay warm under most conditions, but staying cool is much harder for me...I guess we are all different.
Howie
Howard Hoyt
CE - WXYC-FM 89.3
UNC Chapel Hill, NC
www.wxyc.org
I say don't judge what anyone needs (climate wise) for a sense of health and well-being and move on. Personally even being from Wisconsin and living in New England I acclimate to heat after a week or so at levels the rest of my family can't stand.
Zero thermal inertia.
The no-1 reason I live in an 80-year old former private orphanage.
15F to 20F colder than peak day temperature on the outside.
In a house with sufficient thermal inertia, one only needs proper/sufficient ventilation.
(Golly, just dawned to me that the MSc thing I did is half mechanical engineering, with 2nd base math)
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