JBL M2 for The Poors

[GM]

Thanks!

Yeah, pretty impressive!

Never been a fan of 4th order, not even with subs, though with THs and similar, don't have much choice.

GM

 

[whgeiger]

WYHINWYG

16.2cm x 23.4cm x 10.9cm, I knew it was there, just couldn't find it immediately.

I was simply stunned by the 4367 this year at Munich, there was some mmmm mist where the two drivers overlap(that's how it felt to me and a friend) but boy did it compensate with effortless immediate sound with such soul that I now hate my 25 years of speakerbuidling, it was all in the wrong direction...

What you heard at Munich is most likely what you won't hear from the same units when placed in your living room. At $15,000 USD/pair, recommend you not give up your "speakerbuilding" hobby anytime soon. WHG

 

[Forane12]

Thanks for the friendly advice, I know what you are saying, I have no illusions 🙂 I have been building speakers for 25 years. It started out of curiosity, then I wanted to make the greatest speaker with the most expensive drivers for cheap. Then with Linkwitz's site I realized that the room is more important than the speakers and focused on dipoles( the original Pluto was the biggest shock in my life), I even built the LXmini. Which was funny because it was a total disaster in my room but is simply breathtaking in a friend's kitchen... Honestly, I have no illusions that I can repeat what I heard at Munich in my house.

But at the same time I cannot neglect the fact that is sounded so effortless, so coherent in the midrange... I think PB once wrote that after hearing Gedlee speakers he cannot listen to classical domes anymore(apologies if I am mistaken), I feel the same way now, I had a chance to hear them in a much smaller room against a Dynaudio Confidence speaker that I love and it sure made the Dynaudio irritating.

I have great hopes for the recently advanced DSP solutions like Acourate and Audiolense, I loved Mitch Barnett's book and I bought it as a present to many friends, it is a good starting point. But I still believe we need to make the best out of the speakers and just gently support them with a correction here and there. Great hopes for the CBT as well.

 

[ErnieM]

The better prosound active two-way's on the market are very hard to beat. Especially the FIR corrected models. They measure very well and sound great. Might be worth ordering a pair and setting them up in your listening space.

 

[Forane12]

Of course prosund speakers are of interest but this thread was about M2 for the Poors and I thought the 4367 was supposed to be derivative of it, watching this space of one of the truly interesting threads on the whole net, thanks to the enthusiasm and the smart head of PB and other, thank you guys!

 

[pos]

Measurements seem to indicate that it isn't just me and Siegfried Linkwitz who are souring on the Linkwitz Riley crossover, JBL is embracing first order crossovers also.

For the record, the M2 implements a 6th order LR crossover.

 

[mitchba]

I purchased the JBL 4722 as an "M2 for the poors." Still a bit expensive (and industrial looking) at about $1000 each, upgraded to 4" 2453h-SL CD (best value 4" JBL CD IMO). The woofers aren't top of the line, but are dual VC's with neo mags.

Pretty happy with the result, as one can see from these measurements. While really big dynamic sound, I sometimes wonder if the M2's, even a DIY version, would bring more resolution... Also the directivity of the 4722's are 90 x 50, so more direct sound then the M2's with a 120 x 110 pattern...

 

[whgeiger]

Also

For the record, the M2 implements a 6th order LR crossover.

The capacitor in series with the compression driver serves primarily as a DC blocker as the slope of a 1st. order filter is not steep enough to nullify the increasing diaphragm displacement that occurs with frequency decline. WHG

 

[Patrick Bateman]

I stumbled onto the Eminence entry not long ago. Having always wanted to try a ring radiator but not wanting to pay JBL prices and risk disappointment, I ordered a pair plus screw-on adapters despite their advertised graph giving me doubts. I replaced my standard-diaphragm drivers (with far more impressive advertised graphs) with these units and was struck by their HF energy and clarity. So much for graphs.

I wanted a driver to run from 2600hz onward. I used the cheap-but-impressive Eminence 150s CD horns and continue to do so. I was surprised by the linearity I saw in my simple mike/scope test, with just a slight amplitude bump from 5k to 7k. I'm not concerned with lower frequency extension since my crossover is FIR-based and fairly steep. In short, they work fine for my purposes. I continue to `tune' them.

I'd be interested to see how such an affordable combination stacks up vs. high priced units in subjective listening tests.

The Eminence N151M really seems to be a shameless copy of BMS. Did the patents expire or something?!

BMS 4538 - about $80

BMS 4552 - $300

Eminence N151M

BMS 4538 diaphragm

An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.

BMS 4552 diaphragm

Eminence N151M diaphragm

It's so close to the BMS 4538, you'd almost think the diaphragms are interchangeable. But the Eminence is neodymium while the BMS 4538 is ferrite. The BMS 4552 is neo, but it costs more than 3X as much as the Eminence.

 

[Flaesh]

Test Bench: Eminence N151M-8 1” Compression Driver | audioXpress

 

[multitask]

I thought it was made by BMS as soon as i saw it, they wouldnt need to write that anywhere or what?
After watching the eminence factory tour (which looks like 80s production) i cant Imagine they have the tooling to make it look almost the same?

 

[Patrick Bateman]

On the spec sheet, it says "assembled in the USA" not made in the USA. On eBay, there are unlabeled BMS clones available from a few different vendors.

This may be similar to what happened with AMTs: the patents expired and everyone and their uncle came out with a clone.

 

[Kevmoso]

Did the molding work out on this? I may be interested in these.

I don't want t to hijack the forum, but wanted to share this image, been sanding for quite some time and a lot of spray paint applied. Coming out really neat and I'm really curious how the mold will come out!

If the molding goes well Patrick, I can send a pair your way if you would like that.

 

[fotsinijts]

He, didn’t cast it yet, will post it here when Inget tonit

 

[Patrick Bateman]

Charles Sprinkle, the designer of the M2 waveguide is no longer at JBL. His new speaker is using an oblate spheroidal waveguide. You can give it a listen for $149:


Amazon.com: Kali Audio LP-6 6.5-inch Studio Monitor …: Musical Instruments

 

[Carl_Huff]

Thank you for the heads up!

It looks to be a good product. I see they are working on larger speakers. I expect those to be interesting as well.

 

[Patrick Bateman]

When I saw that Sprinkle had left JBL, and these were his first speakers, I was a bit stumped. Because the last thing the world needs is a another Genelec-esque studio monitor that sells for $1000. It's been done to death.

The JBL LSR 4328P is an obvious example.

But it looks like Kali Audio is gunning for the low end of the market. I'm using Behringer B2030Ps at home, and they're so cheap it's hard to justify DIY'ing anything. But these Kali speakers may have some legitimate improvements.

 

[Davey]

FYI, the 8" version (LP-8) is soon to be available.

There are numerous YT videos from all sorts of goofy folks extolling the virtues of the Kali speakers. It's difficult to decipher how good the speakers really are. 🙂

Dave.

 

[Soldermizer]

Tape a sponge over the waveguide and you can have a sort of "son of Gedlee Waveguide" 😀

 

[norman bates]

I'd wrap the horn mouth with felt.