straight horn... I didn't want to mess with a mid-high w-bin.
I've built several prototype tops with varying length horns, from 6" to 18" long. I can tell you the longer horns seem to carry better at distance. Also, the taller you go, (driver-wise) the better it carries at distance. (think line array)
I used a quad driver cabinet to cover the field, a pair of dual driver side fills, and four single driver short fills to keep up with the four TH cabinets. A pair of ep2500's and a dcx2496 round out the system. Believe it or not, it's running from a single 20amp outlet.
Everything (tops/subs/amps) seem to run out of gas at about the same time, so I'd say it was a well balanced mix.
Thanks for the remind.. I need to go back there this summer and do a couple sound checks, just for fun.....
Jim, Did you try anything longer than 18" for the 10" mid horn? I'm hoping for some gain down lower than 200hz.
Or, do you think the BW will suffer?
I'm thinking something like a TSE-111. Although they run the 10" to 3Khz so, it may not array vertically too well.
on the mid-top horn length... If you believe hornresp (and I do) over 18 doesn't help much... at least spl-wise with my experiments. It's always a balancing act to get the port and the horn to match up, so you have something useful.
Others better than I could probably do something with more than 18" straight horn.. but then you are carrying a top that's more than 24" deep... so I'm not sure it's worth it.
BTW -- a tse-111 doesn't go below 200hz either -- right?
The 2 best length's are 6 and 18 in my opinion... otherwise you get fantastic gain in the 'boxy' region that you then have to eq away...
my 2c anyway....
Others better than I could probably do something with more than 18" straight horn.. but then you are carrying a top that's more than 24" deep... so I'm not sure it's worth it.
BTW -- a tse-111 doesn't go below 200hz either -- right?
The 2 best length's are 6 and 18 in my opinion... otherwise you get fantastic gain in the 'boxy' region that you then have to eq away...
my 2c anyway....
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You're right, it won't go below 200hz. I guess my mind was wrapped around the fact they advertise the TSE111 doing several octaves and wasn't thinking about the low end.
That's interesting about HR showing nothing to gain past 18".
Can it model two drivers on one horn? Think, two 10s at angles facing either side of a phase plug, EV MTH style.
I don't think hornresp is especially well suited for mid-high design with your particularly complex dual driver loading you are referring to. I'm not sure akabak can do it either??? maybe someone will chime in.
Here's my reasoning for 6" and 18". (see pic) Yes 24" gets you a little more in the midbass area, however once you start getting that long of a horn, horizontal dispersion really starts to suffer, and it's really only a long long throw cab. I kinda found that out the hard way on my 'dual flare' 18" long horn tops. While the dual flare works well for midbass, it kinda chokes the upper mids on horizontal dispersion. Because of that, I'm going back to just a single flare, from 3.5" to 24" wide in 18" in length. That seems to be the best overall compromise.
hope this was helpful.
Here's my reasoning for 6" and 18". (see pic) Yes 24" gets you a little more in the midbass area, however once you start getting that long of a horn, horizontal dispersion really starts to suffer, and it's really only a long long throw cab. I kinda found that out the hard way on my 'dual flare' 18" long horn tops. While the dual flare works well for midbass, it kinda chokes the upper mids on horizontal dispersion. Because of that, I'm going back to just a single flare, from 3.5" to 24" wide in 18" in length. That seems to be the best overall compromise.
hope this was helpful.
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I think you'll find the dual flare loads the driver better in the low end.
Also, there may be some refraction taking place at the flare narrow to wide point creating the horizontal mid coverage to following the wide flare angles. Think, midrange CD horn.
I agree, the conical flare sounds the sweetest to me. I just think it offers little gain (driver loading) at low freqs. I guess it's a trade off.
Also, there may be some refraction taking place at the flare narrow to wide point creating the horizontal mid coverage to following the wide flare angles. Think, midrange CD horn.
I agree, the conical flare sounds the sweetest to me. I just think it offers little gain (driver loading) at low freqs. I guess it's a trade off.
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i just noticed something while playing around with hornresp, it doesn't seem to do much for the response to make the cabinet at 75% width, the response even seems to flatten out a bit more within 1 db from 40 to 100 hz ?
is this right if i calculate it this way ? at 75% with, so it becomes 18 inch instead of 24
s1 becomes 450
s2 becomes 588
s3 becomes 2280
s4 becomes 2430
and then i got this graph:
it doesn't seem to loose much vs the original plan, or am i overlooking something ?
is this right if i calculate it this way ? at 75% with, so it becomes 18 inch instead of 24
s1 becomes 450
s2 becomes 588
s3 becomes 2280
s4 becomes 2430
and then i got this graph:
it doesn't seem to loose much vs the original plan, or am i overlooking something ?
polviggen:
yea, there is no reason at all my cabinet needed to be as big as it is... IF you need to transport it. This was for a permanent install, and for that, who cares how big a cab is -- performance, even for a db or two matters.
I also optimized the size/shape for least amount of waste from a pair of 4x8 sheets. (call me frugal on that one.)
If you really want a kick butt cabinet that you can move, check out screamerusa's TH for 3015lf. I think it'll toast a 75% wide version of my cabinet.
djfoundation:
I don't hold this design up as anything other than a first attempt, that happens to honor the goals set for it. Littlemike and Davygravy were helpful in my rapid education into TH. Don was kind enough to give me some feedback, and make a respectable drawing of my effort. Add to that David's wonderful Hornresp, and I ended up with success. (I highly recommend hornresp to you. It's worth the effort to learn.)
Many thanks from me to all those on this board, who have helped educate me. I learn along side everyone else.
thanks
yea, there is no reason at all my cabinet needed to be as big as it is... IF you need to transport it. This was for a permanent install, and for that, who cares how big a cab is -- performance, even for a db or two matters.
I also optimized the size/shape for least amount of waste from a pair of 4x8 sheets. (call me frugal on that one.)
If you really want a kick butt cabinet that you can move, check out screamerusa's TH for 3015lf. I think it'll toast a 75% wide version of my cabinet.
djfoundation:
I don't hold this design up as anything other than a first attempt, that happens to honor the goals set for it. Littlemike and Davygravy were helpful in my rapid education into TH. Don was kind enough to give me some feedback, and make a respectable drawing of my effort. Add to that David's wonderful Hornresp, and I ended up with success. (I highly recommend hornresp to you. It's worth the effort to learn.)
Many thanks from me to all those on this board, who have helped educate me. I learn along side everyone else.
thanks
just started on your design Jbell, this will be my first cab actually 
.
I underestimated the size of it a bit, it's quite huge indeed.
What's your working method ? i started out with predrilling and screwing everything togheter, if it fits i'll take it apart again and start with the gluing... hope it goes allright.
.I underestimated the size of it a bit, it's quite huge indeed.
What's your working method ? i started out with predrilling and screwing everything togheter, if it fits i'll take it apart again and start with the gluing... hope it goes allright.
just started on your design Jbell, this will be my first cab actually
I underestimated the size of it a bit, it's quite huge indeed.
What's your working method ? i started out with predrilling and screwing everything togheter, if it fits i'll take it apart again and start with the gluing... hope it goes allright.
I fit the pieces dry with clamps, then glue it up. Not sure how Jim does it, this is a brief description of the technique I use.
When gluing things up, I use two screws (one per panel) to line things up. I use 1-1/2 inch long #8 truss-head screws so that I do not dimple the sides of the box. I drive the screws in so that the point just sticks through the panel, then support the glued baffle on the screw tips so that the glue does not hit the cabinet side. When I have things positioned properly (right angle clamps, squares, and spacers help a lot) I seat the baffle onto the screws with a swat from a rubber mallet then drive the screws into the baffle to hold it in place (small screws do not require predrilling). I clamp things in place or brace things, then brad-nail the joint with my air nailer (1-1/4" for 1/2" material, 1-3/4" for 3/4" material). Once nailed into place, I remove the screws, the PL expands and seals the screw holes. PL will fill gaps and seal cabinets, but it will not work miracles. Good layout and carpentry is really important. Accurate cuts really make assembly easy.
In regards to Jbells comment about directionality...
Yes they are very directional like a 12ga shotgun.
You get wider nearfield response with them on their sides and with the magnet facing the center of the listening area.
That's how I run mine at the club otherwise they blow right past the dance floor and knock everything off the kitchen shelves instead.
Hi all, I'm still alive...berely
Yes they are very directional like a 12ga shotgun.
You get wider nearfield response with them on their sides and with the magnet facing the center of the listening area.
That's how I run mine at the club otherwise they blow right past the dance floor and knock everything off the kitchen shelves instead.
Hi all, I'm still alive...berely
Yeah, I know that boxy thing of which you speak and the horizontal problem when you go long. These are my "honkers" I'm trying to give away. I had a bite today over email, but the guy chickened-out when I mentioned he'd need an EQ to level them out. But the real kicker was when I told him if he used the Eminence Delta Pro-12As with 1200W per side he'd get MaxSPL=124db @ 33 feet. Instead of wow, he freaked and thought they where inefficient
****** craigslister flake like all of 'em! 
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Lets see, that's 144db at 1M... and meOW that hurts.. at the kids and cat's position.
maybe Wi would be interested...
just finished mine with the same dimensions as jbells, it's very impressive I hope the neighbours enjoyed it as much as i did
can't imagine how much output for of those monsters must have.
what's a good placement for these inside ? fire the mouth into a corner ?
i'll just have to try this thing out in my car, just for **** and giggles...
**** **** *** tits
I hope the neighbours enjoyed it as much as i did can't imagine how much output for of those monsters must have.
what's a good placement for these inside ? fire the mouth into a corner ?
i'll just have to try this thing out in my car, just for **** and giggles...
**** **** *** tits
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That is a 15" Eminence driver isn't it? That must be some very big cabinet. Perhaps a little more bracing in the hornmouth could be used?
I bet these are much better then those Tuba 36 horns
Whats wrong with the tuba 36"?
I'm new to DIY but I'm pretty capable are there plans for these subs?
Are Eminence the go also?
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