Outside of sine waves and DC, meaning absolutely everything and nothing then, i.e. any event that comes and goes away in the literal sense, then the meaning of the word loses it's function in audio since everything in music is then 'transient'.
If a transient is not an abrupt or sudden change in time and amplitude with a defined rise time and slope the word becomes meaningless in the way we use it regularly.
To me this is just a form of language manipulation, nothing else. Personally I would call it post modern nonsense, put that's me.
If a transient is not an abrupt or sudden change in time and amplitude with a defined rise time and slope the word becomes meaningless in the way we use it regularly.
To me this is just a form of language manipulation, nothing else. Personally I would call it post modern nonsense, put that's me.
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And if you take the high frequencies out what is there to cause an abrupt or sudden change ? The Q of a low frequency alignment is described as part of the transient response so it is easy to have conflicting terminology. Just as liquorice allsorts are like tyres because they are black, round and rubbery
Just parroting fluid here but the slope / rise time of the impulse IS HF.
Even a square wave, where there's just DC transiting from one level to another, has HF content:
Rise Time vs. Frequency: What's the Relationship?
Back to Basics: Bandwidth and Rise Time | 2018-05-15 | Signal Integrity Journal
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For sure, what we have to do? Is it possible to construct GLL data with the home semi anechoic measurements?
Google seems to find EASE data, is there anything for example here to construct a headphone test with? JBL Professional Loudspeakers
I don't know what to look for, first time heard / read about it from your post.
edit.
RCF seems to post GLL files Product Detail - RCF
QSC Loudspeakers - Software and Firmware - Resources - QSC
I suspect many pro audio / installation manufacturers have made GLL data available.
Yup, mostly pro audio manufacturers supply GLL data. As you’ve found, it costs money to generate and authorise, so it’s only typically used for products that will earn back that cash from sales using those models.
I use GLL data a lot in the day job, and have a license for EASE. I was more talking about compatible balloon data for more typical home use speakers. It seems to be lacking, at least publically.
The likes of Genelec and JBL will have high res balloon data for their products internally, but getting and using it is another matter.
It can be gathered DIY with turntables outdoors, but we need accurate free field measurements at every ten degrees for a full sphere.
That’s a lot of work. Trust me. I’ve done it
even with the robot arm it can take hours.As for using headphones for listening tests I do agree. There are studies that compare results from speaker and headphone-based tests to verify results, and a lot of spatial testing uses speakers in chambers with blackout cloth. The results do tend to be consistent between methods. The problem is time, money and participants. I had planned to do my thesis on a transient based testing of various subwoofer types, tying to characterise behaviours that favour preferences to build a ‘universal performance metric’ for them. That would have used both methods.
Sadly, the ever changing restrictions from Covid made it questionable. You also won’t find an ethics board that will let you subject listeners to >100 dB, which makes it rather pointless. Transient signals like music have crest factor of 12-16 dB, and the whole point was to look at real world usage behaviours rather than small signal ones.
Oh well.
Here is a good example of a fully restored 2-way Sony/Esprit APM-6 that covers the whole spectrum:
Sony Esprit APM 6 Sound ? - YouTube
?????? ????????? ???????????? ?????? ?? ??????? Sony APM6 - YouTube
Sony Esprit APM 6 Sound ? - YouTube
?????? ????????? ???????????? ?????? ?? ??????? Sony APM6 - YouTube
And if you take the high frequencies out what is there to cause an abrupt or sudden change ? The Q of a low frequency alignment is described as part of the transient response so it is easy to have conflicting terminology. Just as liquorice allsorts are like tyres because they are black, round and rubbery
An immediate arrival of a note/frequency....literally any one of them. It needs to be an abrupt change from whats already happening.
To help you understand, Consider that the "start up transient" we learned about during our discussion on group delay, is present at all frequencies
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Camplo, if you scroll down to the bottom right corner you can se a really neat animation of this, says it all really:
Square wave - Wikipedia
Square wave - Wikipedia
Yup, mostly pro audio manufacturers supply GLL data. As you’ve found, it costs money to generate and authorise, so it’s only typically used for products that will earn back that cash from sales using those models.
I use GLL data a lot in the day job, and have a license for EASE. I was more talking about compatible balloon data for more typical home use speakers. It seems to be lacking, at least publically.
The likes of Genelec and JBL will have high res balloon data for their products internally, but getting and using it is another matter.
It can be gathered DIY with turntables outdoors, but we need accurate free field measurements at every ten degrees for a full sphere.
That’s a lot of work. Trust me. I’ve done it
...
Is there too much error interpolaating the balloon from only horizontal and vertical 360 sets, like in the CTA 2034 standard suggests for home measuremments? I'd imagine the vertical and horizontal axis are the most important after direct sound and here the data is accurate enough (actual measurements, not interpolated). Have you tried comparing how much difference there is in room simulation if there was only these two axis data instead of whole balloon used as the source?
It wouldn't represent reality exactly but maybe a virtual room could be deviced so that the interpolated angles don't have too much weight on the sound?
I'm using VituixCAD and it practically has all the data, we would just need to export it (balloon) and then use the data as virtual speaker in virtualroom, generate impulse response of the virtual setup and listen our favourite tracks convolved with it?
I don't know how it would work or not or be valuable, hence asking you. Some stuff could be tested, like what the c-c spacing for first early reflections difference would be. Any stuff that is easy to construct in VituixCAD for example, but a lot of work in reality (manufacturing). We could even construct virual measurements for various test regarding say the polar response and perhaps some of the transient stuff discussed lately.
What do you think, worth the effort? I could ask kimmosto if he would implement data export for this. There might already be suitable data export, I don't know what you would need? There is no balloon export I think. Meanwhile found out EASE LoudspeakerLab has 30 day free trial available. Also catt.se site seems to have some virtualization software available, perhaps something similar to EASE but cheaper or free I didn't check
If you think it would be worth it hit me a PM and I ould try provide some data. I think VituixCAD is similar to EASE SpeakerLab, it just doesn't output GLL. The ATH script with ABEC outputs directivity data aswell. We could check out what is the difference havig constant directivity above / below 1kHz for example. Or from vituixcad what is the difference of polar mismatch of 8"/1" system compared to smoother 4"/1" system for example. Ideal drivers and baffles could be used, easy and fast with VCAD. audibility of diffraction, wide vs narrow baffle? many things that dont need to be evaluated absolutely but in comparison so they all would have similar (less than ideal) accuracy and would bust many myths, give mucho knowledge. Now we can inspect the differences visually, but listening requires manufacturing.
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Im fine, my definition is accurate. The misnomer is the use of the word transient to describe instrumental playback events where the leading edge of the event is called the transient or only burst signal like events (snare drums, high hats, guitar plucks, etc) are referred to. In actuality a "start up transient" exist at the beginning of the event at every frequency involved.
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Sure, if you choose to go by that definition/generalization, that's as much of a duh moment I ever experienced in 40 years of audio.
You just described any non steady state signal as a 'transient'. What exactly is the benefit of that?
Still has nothing to do with the frankly absurd quotes taken from the manufacturers website.
You just described any non steady state signal as a 'transient'. What exactly is the benefit of that?
Still has nothing to do with the frankly absurd quotes taken from the manufacturers website.
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This is a separate affair from whats happening at each frequency, specially. "Just parroting fluid here but the slope / rise time of the impulse IS HF." - I think you mean to say it has HF content.
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