Once you have the woofer section working, you can always experiment with other horns, if the tractrix doesn't meet expectations.
That MTM from post #397 definitely looks nice but the ratio between wavelength at crossover and ctc distance is even worse than the ratio on mine. But I would still like to have a listen to these.
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
The pros and cons of MTMs are well known.
Still, this was a quite a succesful speaker:
Whereas this wasn't:
However, this was mainly due to the small price difference.
Still, this was a quite a succesful speaker:
Whereas this wasn't:
However, this was mainly due to the small price difference.
I strongly disagree on this. I have heard all of the Western Electric (or WE-inspired) systems exhibited by Silbatone at the various editions of Munich High-End in recent years, and while they surely sounded "big" and "showy", they were also invariably "coloured"...
for lack of a better simile, the sound seemed to come from the back of a tunnel. NOT natural or realistic AT ALL.
They may have been state-of-the-art in the 1930's and '40s, but today we can do MUCH better.
Sorry to burst other people's bubble, but I like to tell it like it is.
The wide Bi-Radial horn is probably better for a MTM than the M2 WG with regards to vertical spacing, but it'll never approach Snell's eXpanding array.
Speaking of which, all Audio Note speakers are basically improved early Snell designs:
Speaking of which, all Audio Note speakers are basically improved early Snell designs:
I hope the "big 2 way with car Subwoofer Sound" doesn't apply for all Ocean Way speakers.
They have their followers of whom I hope that they are not all deaf. At least their demo studio looks impressive (apart from the colour of the lighting):
HR1 Stereo – OceanWay Audio
They even have a large MTM using what looks like TAD 1601. What I don't like is that they seem to use a 1" HF Driver :
HRA – OceanWay Audio
Regards
Charles
They have their followers of whom I hope that they are not all deaf. At least their demo studio looks impressive (apart from the colour of the lighting):
HR1 Stereo – OceanWay Audio
They even have a large MTM using what looks like TAD 1601. What I don't like is that they seem to use a 1" HF Driver :
HRA – OceanWay Audio
Regards
Charles
It's not 'my' bubble at least 😉
Did you also listen to the WE 757A monitor?
I agree, the large snail horns WE13, 15A etc. and subsequent pre-war WE cinema speakers are severely compromised designs.
The drivers are exceptional though, even by today's standards. Especially the 594A.
If you dismiss these, you dismiss nearly every high-end compression driver, including the TADs.
However, this is not the thread to discuss vintage gear.
The post war WE757A is a completely different animal.
While it'll not deliver the extension we're used to these days, I am convinced of its technical concept,
including the KS-12027 horn, the 713C, the WE728B and the well thought out crossover.
Considering this speaker is more than 70 years old, there's no bubble to burst.
This is a landmark monitor speaker.
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Charles, I am sure those recent Ocean Way monitors are better.
I would prefer a Strauss MF-2 over any of these though.
It appears they've revived both the 25 year old JBL K2 (S-9500), as well as the Usher D2.
I would prefer a Strauss MF-2 over any of these though.
It appears they've revived both the 25 year old JBL K2 (S-9500), as well as the Usher D2.
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
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Not Quite
It is the acoustic nature of the room that the system is placed in that is most over-looked parameter in loudspeaker system design. Whenever I see advertisements bearing pictures of units being tested in anechoic chambers, I get to have a chuckle yet again.
As far as "almost" is concerned, that just muddies further the already murky waters surrounding system design issues that are better addressed with clarity and as much certainty as possible.
With an unlimited budget, anyone given sufficient time, can stumble on to near-optimally performing design. However, when the mission statement includes a monitory budget, then those that have and those that have not the expertise get separated very quickly, whether or not they are armatures, professionals or both.
As I sit here composing this message, my ears are still ringing from exposure to a "professionally" designed and operated audio system even though protracted exposure was avoided by an otherwise premature venue departure.
WHG
It is the acoustic nature of the room that the system is placed in that is most over-looked parameter in loudspeaker system design. Whenever I see advertisements bearing pictures of units being tested in anechoic chambers, I get to have a chuckle yet again.
As far as "almost" is concerned, that just muddies further the already murky waters surrounding system design issues that are better addressed with clarity and as much certainty as possible.
With an unlimited budget, anyone given sufficient time, can stumble on to near-optimally performing design. However, when the mission statement includes a monitory budget, then those that have and those that have not the expertise get separated very quickly, whether or not they are armatures, professionals or both.
As I sit here composing this message, my ears are still ringing from exposure to a "professionally" designed and operated audio system even though protracted exposure was avoided by an otherwise premature venue departure.
WHG
Sure.
http://silbatoneacoustics.com/images/SGW24.pdf
Western Electric 757A : audiophile
RMAF 2011 - Silbatone, Sound and Fashion - Audio Federation
Did the best speakers of the 1940s sound better than your speakers? - CNET
If you dive into the history of WE/Bell Labs, you'll understand why many of their inventions are paramount to audio technology as we know it today.
The briljant scientists (definitely not hobbyists) had unlimited resources at their disposal.
http://silbatoneacoustics.com/images/SGW24.pdf
Western Electric 757A : audiophile
RMAF 2011 - Silbatone, Sound and Fashion - Audio Federation
Did the best speakers of the 1940s sound better than your speakers? - CNET
If you dive into the history of WE/Bell Labs, you'll understand why many of their inventions are paramount to audio technology as we know it today.
The briljant scientists (definitely not hobbyists) had unlimited resources at their disposal.
WHG,
I fully agree with your arguments.
My remark was specifically related to speakers and not to the environment in which they are used.
Room acoustics is an area of science/expertise in itself.
I fully agree with your arguments.
My remark was specifically related to speakers and not to the environment in which they are used.
Room acoustics is an area of science/expertise in itself.
Here's a link to a video of the WE757A demo at Munich High-End, as discussed in the reddit thread. Skip to 6:50 in this video,
if you don't want to listen to Joe Roberts explanation.
The music is not everybody's cup of tea, the microphone (postition) not optimal, but it's good enough to get an impression.
Here's another video in which the innards of the 757A are revealed.
if you don't want to listen to Joe Roberts explanation.
The music is not everybody's cup of tea, the microphone (postition) not optimal, but it's good enough to get an impression.
Here's another video in which the innards of the 757A are revealed.
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Even through headphones I'm becoming more and more convinced I'm interested in that big baffle, big woofer sound. Not bass, just those dynamics.
It would be interesting to develop a slightly modified and modernized version of those KS-12027s.
Some Russians have pursued a similar goal.
The KS-12027 is a more advanced multicellar horn, compared to this clone of an earlier WE design .
Some Russians have pursued a similar goal.
The KS-12027 is a more advanced multicellar horn, compared to this clone of an earlier WE design .
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I own a pair of those large 2 way MTM, JBL DMS1, and they are pretty good sounding speakers that covering whole spectrum with 2 way. I uploaded my own measurement to Lansing forum.