The 180 has far too much of a breakup mode to cross first order.
Remember this is a desktop speaker I believe?……keep the drivers and baffles small or you won’t have any sense of space, separation or imaging…..you’ll just wind up with hearing the baffles
Remember this is a desktop speaker I believe?……keep the drivers and baffles small or you won’t have any sense of space, separation or imaging…..you’ll just wind up with hearing the baffles
did you check the paper cone version? https://doc.soundimports.nl/pdf/brands/Dayton Audio/RS180P-4/pdf_dayton audio_RS180P-4_1.pdf
till 3khz it looks pretty smooth, if i crossover at 500hz it would be 2.5 octaves before the breakup happens (and the breakup isnt as bad as the stock rs180, i was also considering to try a notch filter there)
That sounds good since there's plenty of room to bring down the breakup region.
Don't be unduly distracted by the peak. Breakup can't be fixed by the crossover, meaning breakup will always do it's thing. Better to have this region filtered down so it is out of the way.
6db per octave…..that’s 15db at the breakup region…….that means the breakup response peak will be right at the fundamental of the mid tweeter considering baffle step……thats going to be audible In a nearfied environment which I continue to stress to you as you plan this design. I suspect you‘re including a design criteria for these to be used as stand alone bookshelf speakers instead of dedicated desktop near fields though…………16-18” of desk space lost to a pair or cabinets is a conflict and typically desks or workstations are up against a wall……just about the worst placement of a 7” midwoofer in a box
hmmm what is your suggestion? i found no drivers so far that are really smoother in the 3-8khz range AND still reach down to 60-80hz in a sealed enclosure
but im kinda worried too about the huge range that the woofer needs to play with first order crossorder
... i even thought that 1 big and 1 small fulrange driver might be a option too...
well, its a "dedicated desk", its not perfect but atleast the speakers have some room to breath, they are on stands behind the desk with around 60cm from baffle to the wall
my current speakers have 8 inch woofers and they work kinda fine here
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how about these https://variant-hifi.com/chassis/fu...-6.5-signature-series-woofer-80w-driver-4-ohm ?
i found them two days ago but from what i heared and read im not really excited to hear aluminium cones, the break up drop off on these look better suited for a first order crossover
i found them two days ago but from what i heared and read im not really excited to hear aluminium cones, the break up drop off on these look better suited for a first order crossover
You have to look at bass response for your installation…..it’s about the worst case and needs to be approached specific to those issue…….early reflections from the desktop, nodal peaks from omni dispersion bouncing off the rear wall.
By using a fullrange driver as you intend, and crossing it fairly low……keep that driver up and away from the desktop, reducing those early reflections. Keep that driver and baffle small…..focused point source response because remember, you’ll have your monitor in between those gobbling up any sense of space. Take a page from Linkwitz here on Pluto and LX mini………..your application is anything but conventional……eliminate conventional box construction as well.
By using a fullrange driver as you intend, and crossing it fairly low……keep that driver up and away from the desktop, reducing those early reflections. Keep that driver and baffle small…..focused point source response because remember, you’ll have your monitor in between those gobbling up any sense of space. Take a page from Linkwitz here on Pluto and LX mini………..your application is anything but conventional……eliminate conventional box construction as well.
Wanna tackle your installation for real?……… big magnet, high QTS and low freq response in a sealed box…….and fire that driver UP so you don’t have to deal with the directional break up modes
https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-...per-Cone-Subwoofer-Speaker-264-917?quantity=1
.25 cuft sealed box for an f3 around 55hz utilizing boundary gain to get real response down to 30hz with the sealed 2nd order rolloff.
https://www.parts-express.com/Tang-...per-Cone-Subwoofer-Speaker-264-917?quantity=1
.25 cuft sealed box for an f3 around 55hz utilizing boundary gain to get real response down to 30hz with the sealed 2nd order rolloff.
i already look out for those but this isnt really specific to one speaker, imo mainly dispersion makes a difference here
studio monitors most of the time count on narrow dispersion because of reflections
yea i agree, and already try do that
i was thinking of a two seperate box for woofer/fullrange design, so i can move the fullrange backwards to phase align the drivers
im not sure if its the best idea to make a woofer fire upwads in my scenario... first order crossover demands higher frequencys and above 1khz they become directional, kinda curious how it would sound but its probably more atmosphere type of thing
hmm and this driver works with first order crossover? its more of a subwoofer no?
its the same problems i have with the dayton epique, i rather have clean 80-500hz (or say up to a few thousend kilohertz because of the first order crossover) than more bass, and the high excursion seems to raise THD and with a sealed enclosure you dont get "that low" with these anyways
maybe something as easy as this, but without subwoofer and large radius edges, it needs to be easily built, unfortunaly i dont have much equipment here (and im not that handy..)
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Like Pluto and Lx mini…..you don’t need a lot of tools. For the TB subwoofer, a 14” long section of 6” inside diameter PVC pipe gets the job done. Don’t concern yourself with phase overlap below 500hz in the nearfield…….there’s no directional detail there…..only resonance.…..the harmonic attack of instruments are all above 1khz. Keep that resonance fast with low group delay. A sealed enclosure does this with group delay……a cardioid or dipole does it even better………run your wideband driver dipole and enjoy.
well thats the question, i dont know for sure either, imo "absolute polarity" is specially audible under 100hz, atleast its easier to tell for basses than for highs
kinda wondering if it would be easy to build a 3 way box with a full range driver going from 500hz to around 5-10khz to suppliment a real tweeter with first order crossover
... also this kinda asks the question if a fullrange + tweeter 2-way is possible too and what in this case it better... the full range driver covering 500-20khz or 80-5khz and the tweeter takes over, whats worse here regarding the doppler effect?
1. fullrange covering bass but just going up to 5khz or
2. fullrange dont need to cover bass but up 20khz
3. fullrange just covering 500 to 5khz, which probably is "best"
tho a wideband woofer + tweeter is probably the better way here for a two way box
... also this kinda asks the question if a fullrange + tweeter 2-way is possible too and what in this case it better... the full range driver covering 500-20khz or 80-5khz and the tweeter takes over, whats worse here regarding the doppler effect?
1. fullrange covering bass but just going up to 5khz or
2. fullrange dont need to cover bass but up 20khz
3. fullrange just covering 500 to 5khz, which probably is "best"
tho a wideband woofer + tweeter is probably the better way here for a two way box
NOT for the nearfield…..it’s just too many drive units in a small space and they won’t get an opportunity to sum.
Remember…..true point source is the ultimate goal……not attainable but get as close as possible
Remember…..true point source is the ultimate goal……not attainable but get as close as possible
You need to look at phase if you are going to cross. Even if you don't plan to measure, you need to try to work with it.
You do not randomly select crossover frequencies. They are selected based on driver performance first.
Or you select driver for range you want.
Your random rambling does not make much sense.
That's one way to do it, adason.. (I usually choose my crossover frequencies before I select a driver for them.)
a fullrange as mid would make crossover quite universal i imagine
why random rambling? im just asking what is in regards of doppler effect worse
1. fullrange covering 500-20khz
2. fullrange covering 500-5khz (so highs that would have been affected get played by a seperate tweeter)
3. fullrange covering 0hz-5khz (so a 2way where the fullrange acts as midwoofer + tweeter)
i guess 2. wins, question is if a first oder crossover will be non-intrusive or even doable at 5-10khz
hmm yea, good point, it was just a idea/thought with the tweeter
hmm yea i will surely measure things once in the final enclosure in free air before making a crossover
yea that is also what i think is best unless you are "forced" to use specific drivers
See...you are doing it again, asking nonsense questions about selecting crossover points.
Like i said, you look at fr response, on axis, off axis, phase, waterfall plot... and where the off axis starts to beam, and shows breakups, and ringing, best seen on waterfall plot, you decide where you place the crossover point to get rid of it. Its based on driver performance.
Some drivers have terrible breakups, and needs steeper crossover, and/or lower crossover to deal with breakups, some do not.
Some rollof so smoothly, you do not even need crossover, just ad tweeter.
Some has such terrible breakups, like metal cones, aluminium, or magnesium, that they even need notch filter to tame the breakup.
Seems to me you do not know what exactly you want. Hence random rambling.
Like i said, you look at fr response, on axis, off axis, phase, waterfall plot... and where the off axis starts to beam, and shows breakups, and ringing, best seen on waterfall plot, you decide where you place the crossover point to get rid of it. Its based on driver performance.
Some drivers have terrible breakups, and needs steeper crossover, and/or lower crossover to deal with breakups, some do not.
Some rollof so smoothly, you do not even need crossover, just ad tweeter.
Some has such terrible breakups, like metal cones, aluminium, or magnesium, that they even need notch filter to tame the breakup.
Seems to me you do not know what exactly you want. Hence random rambling.