Day light is burning 🥵 🥵 🥵View attachment 1317350
I know that I'm not the brightest bulb in the circuitIts almost 6:30 AM here???????
You all are the best (regardless of time of day or number of cups of coffee 😉! Thanks for all the help. I’ll get to testing and troubleshooting this afternoon. Will keep you posted.
I'm sure you will find it. It's always can't see forest for the trees thing with me. Some small item right in front. I had a devil of a time with the first one I built. It was a beta board in early days and it had a slight hum, cutting some traces zen mod suggested at the time took care of it.
Hello all, an update on the troubleshooting endeavor:
Swapped in 1A fuses and so far so good. Still getting +-15v. No fuses blown so far.
Figured out the LED situation. Turned them around and they're working now. I had to orient them opposite what's shown in the build guide. Go figure!
...but, alas, still no music when I hook it up :-(
I'm not hearing the relays click when I turn the selector. But I have checked continuity between the IDC and the outputs, and I hear them clicking when I do that.
I checked voltage at the IDC. When I have one probe on GND, I get ~24v. With the probe on (-) I get ~9v. And with the probe on (+) I get ~39v. See attached pics.
I double checked the volume pot wiring. I have COM > CCW, OUTPUT > WIP, and IN > CW. I'll go check again, though, since this seems like one possible place where I'm missing something.
Any suggestions?
Swapped in 1A fuses and so far so good. Still getting +-15v. No fuses blown so far.
Figured out the LED situation. Turned them around and they're working now. I had to orient them opposite what's shown in the build guide. Go figure!
...but, alas, still no music when I hook it up :-(
I'm not hearing the relays click when I turn the selector. But I have checked continuity between the IDC and the outputs, and I hear them clicking when I do that.
I checked voltage at the IDC. When I have one probe on GND, I get ~24v. With the probe on (-) I get ~9v. And with the probe on (+) I get ~39v. See attached pics.
I double checked the volume pot wiring. I have COM > CCW, OUTPUT > WIP, and IN > CW. I'll go check again, though, since this seems like one possible place where I'm missing something.
Any suggestions?
Could this be it? Looking over the volume pot I'm realizing there's no copper tracing for the COM connections on this pot board I'm using:
Disregard previous post - eyes starting to cross and not thinking straight. Copper tracing obviously on other side of PCB. Time to step away for the night and start fresh tomorrow...
Howdy,
Nice! Glad the LEDs are working. You have 2020 boards... you don't have 2021 ... or 2023 boards. You can use the build guide as a reference, but just look at the C marks on the twister board and/or the schematic. Either way, you have it sorted. Awesome.
The great news there is that now you know you have power to the twister board. So... since that board is very simple... we can trace it back a bit to see what's up with your relays.
I am not sure why you're measuring from where you're measuring in the pics above. That's on me.
First, can you explain below in a little more depth, please. I want to understand when the relays clicked. Please don't replicate, but please explain. I should have been more clear... DON'T measure continuity / resistance with the unit powered, please. We could have some not-so-great outcomes. The only time I'd have the unit powered is to check a voltage, and clearly you have better manual dexterity than I to hold the probe on that header pin... 😱 🙂
Two quickies will help me to figure out where to go next. My gut tells me all may be ok save a bit of wiring perhaps.
Do the LEDs light appropriately now when you turn the switch?
See the traces and/or the schematic for the twister board... review what the switch is actually doing. + rail comes in to A1 / C1. Switch connects it to A2 / A6 | C2 / C6 => through the appropriate LED, through the LED resistor... to negative rail.
With the cables removed on the main PCBs using the box header - Short the + to the either of the pins marked 4, or 5. Both the input signal relay and K6 should click. Then do the same for 1-3. The input signal relays should click. Be careful. DO NOT short - to +. You can use anything, but a single female to female breadboard jumper like in the group below works well. (Don't forget to put in your diodes for input 3)
After you check that. Let us know.
Nice! Glad the LEDs are working. You have 2020 boards... you don't have 2021 ... or 2023 boards. You can use the build guide as a reference, but just look at the C marks on the twister board and/or the schematic. Either way, you have it sorted. Awesome.
The great news there is that now you know you have power to the twister board. So... since that board is very simple... we can trace it back a bit to see what's up with your relays.
I am not sure why you're measuring from where you're measuring in the pics above. That's on me.
First, can you explain below in a little more depth, please. I want to understand when the relays clicked. Please don't replicate, but please explain. I should have been more clear... DON'T measure continuity / resistance with the unit powered, please. We could have some not-so-great outcomes. The only time I'd have the unit powered is to check a voltage, and clearly you have better manual dexterity than I to hold the probe on that header pin... 😱 🙂
Two quickies will help me to figure out where to go next. My gut tells me all may be ok save a bit of wiring perhaps.
Do the LEDs light appropriately now when you turn the switch?
See the traces and/or the schematic for the twister board... review what the switch is actually doing. + rail comes in to A1 / C1. Switch connects it to A2 / A6 | C2 / C6 => through the appropriate LED, through the LED resistor... to negative rail.
With the cables removed on the main PCBs using the box header - Short the + to the either of the pins marked 4, or 5. Both the input signal relay and K6 should click. Then do the same for 1-3. The input signal relays should click. Be careful. DO NOT short - to +. You can use anything, but a single female to female breadboard jumper like in the group below works well. (Don't forget to put in your diodes for input 3)
After you check that. Let us know.
Just trying to follow along and maybe learn something. To me this isn't clear, are you saying short the + to pin 1, click, 2 click, 3 click?
My fault. Terrible at using words to describe something a diagram could do much more quickly and clearly.
On hearing the relays, it is very quiet, and the thunk of the switch positions can hide it. Turn the selector VERY slowly, and you can hear it, if it's there.
any substitutes for irf9510 if someone happens to solder the part in wrong and can't get it out ?
^ Subs... maybe... yes.
However, that's a current part. No need to use a different part.
IF you're good with it... I assume you put a 510 in there, yes?
So, you'd need a replacement 510 vs. a 9510? Maybe...
If so... don't make it hard on yourself. Cut the three legs of the misplaced part. Using some flux and/or fresh solder and an appropriately heated iron (hot) remove each leg individually.
PM me, and I'll send you whatever parts you need if you don't happen to have a parts order ready to go with Mouser / Digi-Key etc.
However, that's a current part. No need to use a different part.
IF you're good with it... I assume you put a 510 in there, yes?
So, you'd need a replacement 510 vs. a 9510? Maybe...
If so... don't make it hard on yourself. Cut the three legs of the misplaced part. Using some flux and/or fresh solder and an appropriately heated iron (hot) remove each leg individually.
PM me, and I'll send you whatever parts you need if you don't happen to have a parts order ready to go with Mouser / Digi-Key etc.
Thanks so much for the patient guidance and clarification, Patrick and ZM. The diagram for testing the relays is very helpful! Hopefully I didn't do anything irreparably stupid... Will report back later.
I've transitioned my Iron Pre from standard volume control to Muses volume control, so I have spare parts such as a built up twister, and a spare M3 for both boards. If you need I can send them out.
Alan
Alan
Thanks, Alan. Very kind of you to offer! I think my twister board is working fine, but I will keep you in mind if I discover otherwise.
Okay, an update on the results of the latest round of testing:
1. I'm getting 25vdc between the + and - pins on both IDCs. Thanks for the very explicit instructions on how to measure, ZM. I am a horse who needs to be lead right down to the water 😉
2. The LEDs are lighting up appropriately when I turn the selector switch.
3. I tested the relays using Patrick's proposed method and I'm getting nice distinct clicks for 1-5 on both boards. (I added the diode for the third SE input)
4. I unplugged the unit and did another round of continuity testing on the input and output jacks and PCB solder connections. It appears that there's continuity between GND and + on all of the connections, both boards. I'm assuming that shouldn't be the case, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I just did a close visual inspection of my soldering job and don't see any evidence of solder bridges the pads. In any case it would be unlikely to have that happen on ALL the connections... Could there be an issue with my RCA jacks? Again, seems unlikely that all 10 of them would be faulty.
5. I was re-checking my volume pot wiring against ZM's wiring diagram in post 1 and noticed that the order of connections on the PCB is different on the 2020 boards than the current version. I have it wired correctly based on the markings on the PCB (COM > CCW, OUTPUT > WIP, and IN > CW), but figured I should confirm.
Thoughts about where to go from here?
PS - random question. Is there any reason I couldn't add a bit of grease to the volume pot shaft where it passes through the front plate? I've got a squeaky one.
Okay, an update on the results of the latest round of testing:
1. I'm getting 25vdc between the + and - pins on both IDCs. Thanks for the very explicit instructions on how to measure, ZM. I am a horse who needs to be lead right down to the water 😉
2. The LEDs are lighting up appropriately when I turn the selector switch.
3. I tested the relays using Patrick's proposed method and I'm getting nice distinct clicks for 1-5 on both boards. (I added the diode for the third SE input)
4. I unplugged the unit and did another round of continuity testing on the input and output jacks and PCB solder connections. It appears that there's continuity between GND and + on all of the connections, both boards. I'm assuming that shouldn't be the case, but please correct me if I'm wrong. I just did a close visual inspection of my soldering job and don't see any evidence of solder bridges the pads. In any case it would be unlikely to have that happen on ALL the connections... Could there be an issue with my RCA jacks? Again, seems unlikely that all 10 of them would be faulty.
5. I was re-checking my volume pot wiring against ZM's wiring diagram in post 1 and noticed that the order of connections on the PCB is different on the 2020 boards than the current version. I have it wired correctly based on the markings on the PCB (COM > CCW, OUTPUT > WIP, and IN > CW), but figured I should confirm.
Thoughts about where to go from here?
PS - random question. Is there any reason I couldn't add a bit of grease to the volume pot shaft where it passes through the front plate? I've got a squeaky one.
^ Apologies that I can't spend time on this one right now, but wanted to pop in.
1-3 - AWESOME! That (should) mean that it comes down to wiring. It would surprise me if it's a component / stuffing issue, but it could be.
4. This points toward a root cause. Will have to take some time in the morning to noodle over it and provide some next steps. Others may and should feel free to chime in.
5. Need to review. Could be tied to 4.
Random - go for it. Some folks may have specific recommendations that won't cause issues and/or are less likely to leak down into the innards.
1-3 - AWESOME! That (should) mean that it comes down to wiring. It would surprise me if it's a component / stuffing issue, but it could be.
4. This points toward a root cause. Will have to take some time in the morning to noodle over it and provide some next steps. Others may and should feel free to chime in.
5. Need to review. Could be tied to 4.
Random - go for it. Some folks may have specific recommendations that won't cause issues and/or are less likely to leak down into the innards.
Thanks, Patrick.
One more update: I just hooked up the selector switch and powered the unit on. LEDs still lighting up appropriately. But, I held my ear up close to the relays while turning the switch and hear no clicks whatsoever. So... maybe there's something going on there? I may try and re-solder the switch tonight to see if I somehow oriented it incorrectly.
One more update: I just hooked up the selector switch and powered the unit on. LEDs still lighting up appropriately. But, I held my ear up close to the relays while turning the switch and hear no clicks whatsoever. So... maybe there's something going on there? I may try and re-solder the switch tonight to see if I somehow oriented it incorrectly.
^ Hold tight. It is interesting that when you put the twister back in that the relays aren't actuating, but don't de-solder / re-solder ... yet. Those are a bugger.
LED's indicate properly, but relays don't click... hmmmmm. It's likely something simple. If you'd like (you can't hurt it) do a quick beep test to make sure what's connecting to what (or not) when you turn the switch. Just remove the cables, and probe it out.
OH! Did you make sure that the lorlin switch has the little metal notched insert in the proper position for 6 clicks?
I'll check back in the a.m.
LED's indicate properly, but relays don't click... hmmmmm. It's likely something simple. If you'd like (you can't hurt it) do a quick beep test to make sure what's connecting to what (or not) when you turn the switch. Just remove the cables, and probe it out.
OH! Did you make sure that the lorlin switch has the little metal notched insert in the proper position for 6 clicks?
I'll check back in the a.m.