^^Thanks all. Yes I have a very understanding wife (cheers Mark).
krivium, that's elliptical OS, I've used nothing but OS for over 10 years now.
Jim, I don't allow a baffle step in my main system.
krivium, that's elliptical OS, I've used nothing but OS for over 10 years now.
Jim, I don't allow a baffle step in my main system.
The saying is " You have't really heard your speakers, until you've soffit mounted them"
Soffit mount is "the best" placement...second place goes to corner loading, which I like to call, the poor mans soffit mount.
I'm building the Asathor speakers. Why? Because they measure the same or better than the Camalpos do for a 5th of the price.
I'm building dave123s 15+8+ either the G1, a horn, or dual AST2560s. he's built all three versions, and I plan on going with his recommendations.
Why? Because they have the larger midrange driver to a more exotic HF transducer, and a great 15" woofer I was seeing in my head.
Both of these builders have expressed most everyone has loved their speakers, who have listened to them. And because I could only choose so many. I wanted to different beasts, and not two 2-way horn to 15" speakers.
lastly, because the JBL M2 clone with OEM parts was waaaay too difficult to figure out a grand total I would be spending, with Crown amps needed and xover/processor box? It seemed it would be well over $5 grand though. this was my first choice.
Good on you Flaxxer. The Tymphany compression driver is excellent. The horn is controversial but you can compare this to the ribbon drivers and see what works best for you.
Copying other designs is simple in my opinion, With a little guidance you could do it for a cost effective price....
Drivers can be swapped, a lot of times...maybe you'd copy Xover, baffle width, and horn/waveguide...maybe. People have said they preferred 4" diaphragm compression driver over the M2 driver...The jbl m2 woofer can be substituted with plenty of other drivers at more modest prices....then you'd get to keep the m2 waveguide in your system....
jbl 2216nd 1200/pair
jbl D2430k 720/pair
jbl m2 waveguide 520/pair
2440 total
400 dollars worth of wood n hardware?
1100 for a pair of Behringer NX6000D (amp and xover rolled into one)
grand total of 3940...is it a sign?.....lol
I'd be done already...not literally but figuratively...I also fancied the jbl m2 at the beginning of my design journey... I used it as a sort of benchmark along the way.
Good ol POS -
JBL Master Reference Monitor - Page 73
Drivers can be swapped, a lot of times...maybe you'd copy Xover, baffle width, and horn/waveguide...maybe. People have said they preferred 4" diaphragm compression driver over the M2 driver...The jbl m2 woofer can be substituted with plenty of other drivers at more modest prices....then you'd get to keep the m2 waveguide in your system....
jbl 2216nd 1200/pair
jbl D2430k 720/pair
jbl m2 waveguide 520/pair
2440 total
400 dollars worth of wood n hardware?
1100 for a pair of Behringer NX6000D (amp and xover rolled into one)
grand total of 3940...is it a sign?.....lol
I'd be done already...not literally but figuratively...I also fancied the jbl m2 at the beginning of my design journey... I used it as a sort of benchmark along the way.
Good ol POS -
JBL Master Reference Monitor - Page 73
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Flaxxer,
Good to see that you've settled on a couple of designs. Look forward to build updates, and listening impressions in due time.
Have fun!
Good to see that you've settled on a couple of designs. Look forward to build updates, and listening impressions in due time.
Have fun!
I found the Asathors, but it see.s I am not smart enough to find any information on the dave123s speakers. Can you provide a link?
The Asathors are about 1/10th of your $4000 spec. Seems like we were in the wrong boat most of the time.
Hi, diyiggy,
So if we take 92db efficiency loudspeakers, 3m listening spot, 80dbspl average level and 20db dynamic range allowed over rms:
80dbspl+20db : 100dbspl max @listening point.
From distance loss we can expect something along 9db attenuation.
So 110db minim @1m.
110-92: 18db gain needed from amp which equal 64w amplifier.
If 75dbspl average expect something around 15/16w.
With 8w amplifier expect around 70dbspl.
I've got experience with tube amplifier Yes, but not the one you would think of ( i used to play with VHT, Mesa Boogie, Marshall tube amps a lot). 😉
For monitoring you'll rarely see tube amps in control rooms with the exception of some mastering rooms ( and usually not 5 watts set amps).
I don't get this tube vs solidstate level difference: yes if the design push second orders harmonics it could sound fatter (not on every signal though) but if all things are equal ( psu capabiliy) and if the tube amp is designed toward accuracy) the difference could only be heard at limit of SOA. Tube amps could be more pleasant as onset of disto could be gentler ( but if designed toward accuracy it can behave as solid state: abrupt onset of distortion).
All i can tell for sure is that what metal guitarists i worked with looked for the power stage distortion behavior ( third, fifth, seventh rather than second, fourth,...) rather than the creamy sound bluesmen favoured ( preamp triode distortion mainly)...
Some friends have tube pre and power amp and even if i can enjoy this for an evening, this is not my preference for my own systems.
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Krivium, you listens to one loudspeaker at a time in an anechoic chamber? I just ask, because your math shows that.
For example, if a loudspeaker have 92dB efficiency (in the normal sense, not in Klipsch’s interpretation), then this number goes up when placed in a acoustically reflective environment (aka normal living room).
For example, if a loudspeaker have 92dB efficiency (in the normal sense, not in Klipsch’s interpretation), then this number goes up when placed in a acoustically reflective environment (aka normal living room).
I forgot about these. Another good option amongst the list.
Would you consider changing the name?
Because rooms are a random variable, it only makes sense to design without room gain involved....Hell I designed my system by aiming for spl goals using a single channel. Different ways to skin the cat is all...
Deni09,
It is an approximation in which it is a worst case regarding power needs. Better to have spares than be short of (from headroom point of view).
But please could you enlight me on how an spl number can increase by itself ( i can see only one case including changing from 4pi to whatever smaller radiation pattern to be true but related to room not loudspeakers... otherwise this is wishfull thinking)?
I see another way too but it is called 'sales department science' ( in other words BS).
It is an approximation in which it is a worst case regarding power needs. Better to have spares than be short of (from headroom point of view).
But please could you enlight me on how an spl number can increase by itself ( i can see only one case including changing from 4pi to whatever smaller radiation pattern to be true but related to room not loudspeakers... otherwise this is wishfull thinking)?
I see another way too but it is called 'sales department science' ( in other words BS).
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'This number goes up once in a reflective environnement'.
Hmmm so you essentially tell me Early Reflections are part of loudspeaker efficiency.
Well not my thing ( i think one have to 'taylor' ER to his liking not be slave of them) neither my understanding of physic at play ( efficiency of loudspeakers is not involved, nature of ( material), distance and angling of walls ( and loudspeakers location) are).
And it'll occurs an issue to me next time i'll have to setup a soundsystem outdoor: should i trust data given (expected) by the manufacturer? 😉
Hmmm so you essentially tell me Early Reflections are part of loudspeaker efficiency.
Well not my thing ( i think one have to 'taylor' ER to his liking not be slave of them) neither my understanding of physic at play ( efficiency of loudspeakers is not involved, nature of ( material), distance and angling of walls ( and loudspeakers location) are).
And it'll occurs an issue to me next time i'll have to setup a soundsystem outdoor: should i trust data given (expected) by the manufacturer? 😉
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Yeah, Klipsch's efficiency numbers are mainly for marketing but it holds some truth if the speaker is used in a typical living room.
After all, not the loudspeaker's own efficiency that goes up in an acoustically reflective environment, but the average SPL that reaches your ears.
After all, not the loudspeaker's own efficiency that goes up in an acoustically reflective environment, but the average SPL that reaches your ears.