I need a scope

[apassgear]

Tony,
What sensitivity do you look for? 2mv/div?

What I have seen is that the portables like the 2337 and guess also the 2336 have 5mv/div and most of the 2200 and 2400 series have 2mv/div... you can look to overshoot square wave more neatly I guess

 

[apassgear]

Mark,
does the 2465B also fall in that category ?
For my taste, that's the absolute drooler machine, lowest i have seen till now is $1600.

(i just snatched a 100 MHz DSO from the web for $60 yesterday, and downloaded the 192 page service manual pdf for free last night, feeling pretty happy again)

After your grab or steal? of that DSO you might not be interested but 2465B's goes for $600 to 900 this side of the Atlantic in good working conditions and most are reacently calibarated. I'm sure you will pay less than $400 for airfreight.🙂😉

 

[tekman]

@jackinny:

Well, I had more than 20 Tektronix 2215/35 for service, and can't state the problem you mentioned about the screen. The 2215 is well made and works very reliable (we had several of these for our field service people)

Same catagory is 2215A or 2235 (later is 100 MHz): Very robust and the vertical amplifier has a well balanced roll off at higher frequencies. Perfect scopefor serious audio and digital audio work to my experience.

@ apassgear:

Well, 2335/2336/2337 (all same basic construction, but with several add on like DMM):
Nice 100 MHz scopes, but the sreen size is noticeably smaller than to 22xx and 24xx series. Okay, they are designed as portables. Not many around here so spare parts are hard to get. I would stay away from these scopes series.

2445/2455/2465 seies wit hlater upgrades (A and B) models:

Well, this si one of the finest anloguese scopes ever made by Tektronix. Very good high frequency response, ultra stable trigger, excellent linearity (up to 1 %). Nice features like on screen measurement (as used in these days, with 2 cursors. Looks a littel bit funny nowadays when you are used to TDS series scopes).

Reliability:

The non-letter seires is known for problems with the the horizontal driver IC (U 800 part).

To make shure you folks understand this point correctly, note please: Known means this CAN be a problem. There are many scopes in the field that never showd this problem. There are some scopes in the field that showed the problem, and after exchange of the U800 part worked well without causing anymore trouble. And there are some scoeps in the filed that showed the problem with horizontal, and after exchange of the U800 kept on with the same problem.

So if you can get hold of an 2445/55/65 scope, let it warm up and work for 3 to 5 hours (you yourself or the seller). If you don't, see trouble with horizontal, you can be quite shure you will never see this problem during your usage. If sympthoms exist, then they will show up quickly.

The 2445A/55A/65A never came with horizontal failures to my workbench, so to my eperience I would recommend it without drawbacks.

The "B" letter series went through a mojor processing and production change, so the sympthom with the U800 is known. As above mentioned with the non-letter series: If you holf oone, let it warm up. When you have no problems during the first 3-5 hours, you can be quite shure that this scope will be with for the next 10 years ;-)

Well, that's my experience above. Other people may have other. I am only 30 years working in T&M, so may be there are more experienced heads around ;-)

Okay, I hope this informatin introduced more "gas" into this thread.

hth,
Andreas

 

[tekman]

@tschrama:

The MPM 305 is a 50 MHZ, nice scope, 2ch.
Well, if you are looking for a Philips 3055: check marktplaats.nl. There is one close to your place (well, isn't everything close in the Netherlands ? ;-) ). Around 250 Euros, AFAIR.

If you want 100 MHZ which is more appropriate vor digital audio,
these you can get for 290 - 330 euros. All in good conditon, fresh cal'd to specs, etc.

If you have no success, send me a mail and I will help.


hth,
Andreas

 

[jackinnj]

5mV/div is pretty standard -- you can get 10uV/cm with the 7A22N or 5A22N plug-in's for the 7XXX and 5XXX series respectively but for most analog scopes an outboard preamp was necessary.

TEK, HP probably others) made preamplifiers for the scopes -- since the bandwidth was pretty high they can be rather expensive. the ADA400 was designed by TEK for their analog scopes -- it is powered from the probe power supply or an external supply.

if you are going to measure microvolts, good probes are necessary.

 

[jacco vermeulen]

The 2465B is the Mercedes 600 of analogue scopes and is still serviceable.

Jack,
if you are referring to an original MB 600 Pullman, i'd like one of each please.

Andreas,
am i reading your post as that in your opinion it is safer to go for a 2465A instead of a 2465B ?

Thanks for sharing all the realtime experience, t&m or otherwise.
It's a scope jungle out there.

 

[apassgear]

Andreas,

Nice to read your lengthly tour through the 2200 and 2400 series, I'm sure many can capitalize from your experiance😀

 

[gengis]

Which HP scope is good for audio testing?

545xx series?

 

[Mark A. Gulbrandsen]

Actually I pretty much stay away from the later 22xx and 24xx series scopes all together as the crt's are no where near as well made as the earlier 45x and 46x series and older crts were, the gun spot size is considerably larger on all of the later ones. They just don't have nearly as sharp a trace as do the earlier TEK crts. Just ask any of the field engineers that used to work for TEK and they will tell you exactly the same thing. While the 24xx may have good specs they don't have a sharp picture. The best TEK crt's were actually in the 5xx all tube series scopes... they had the sharpest trace capability and smallest spot size of all of them. Spot size is extremely important if you want to "see' very high frequency "stuff" in your waveforms. The other thing I don't like about the 24xx series is the move to LSI integrated circuits and switching power supplies. Good luck getting replacement I'C's if one goes, you then have to buy a parts scope.......

After selling my 2215, which I had it since new, I bought a Tek 7704 but is too heavy and bulky and 200mhz is too much for audio work.

Tony,

I have a 7704A and a 7904 scope and actually prefer the 7704A for audio work. I have it on a TEK cart and both my TM-500 series main frames fit right below it making for one VERY convenient and flexible measurement system. At the price that the 77xx and 79xx scopes are going for these days and the abundance of inexpensive surplus plug ins available they are probably the biggest steal in scopes today if one can accomodate their size.

Which HP scope is good for audio testing?

H-P made some respectable stuff. I have an H-P spectrum analyzer but the biggest problem is that H-P scopes were not as popular as TEK was and as a result parts are alot harder to get for them today.

Mark

 

[tekman]

@ apassgear:

Andreas,

Nice to read your lengthly tour through the 2200 and 2400 series, I'm sure many can capitalize from your experiance

well Tony if your comment is meant positve, thank I thank for it.
If it is meant ironical, then that's the wrong attitude

I guess we all here have subscribed in tih DIYaudio to share expereince in a positive way. At least I do try so. As I mentioned: These are my personal experiences. Others may have had other experiences. In my sense it doesn't make much sense to start any story with "I have heard this and that". Instead it makes real more sense when facts are put on the table and are shared.

@jacco vermeulen

am i reading your post as that in your opinion it is safer to go for a 2465A instead of a 2465B ? Thanks for sharing all the realtime experience, t&m or otherwise.
It's a scope jungle out there.

Well Jacco, please reread my post because it is definetely not safer to go for ... than for ...
The point is:
1. We are talking about used T&M equipment. as with all electronics stuff, this can/will fail sooner or later.
2. We pay a lower price than for new equipment, this justifies the risk taken under point 1.)
3.) We read the Forums and take pretests to minimize risk.
4.) We decide for any 24xx non-letter/A/B as long as we really want one and we a willing to pay the price.
5.) We are willing to live with the risk of failure.

It's a scope jungle out there.

If you are in a jungle you usually take the money to pay a guide that seriously helps you through. If instead you want to go for yourself, it's your life you are responsible for.

There is no free lunch in life. But all of you that are really looking for a tested scope for a fair price - you are welcome to visit me. All others that want to go alone- well, happy hunting ;-)

@gengis

Which HP scope is good for audio testing? 545xx series?

HP 54502 might be a little bit overkill. I'd stay with a HP54600A, 2ch 100 MHz if I had to buy a HP scope.

@ Mark:

Actually I pretty much stay away from the later 22xx and 24xx series scopes all together as the crt's are no where near as well made as the earlier 45x and 46x series and older crts were, the gun spot size is considerably larger on all of the later ones. They just don't have nearly as sharp a trace as do the earlier TEK crts. Just ask any of the field engineers that used to work for TEK and they will tell you exactly the same thing. While the 24xx may have good specs they don't have a sharp picture. The best TEK crt's were actually in the 5xx all tube series scopes... they had the sharpest trace capability and smallest spot size of all of them. Spot size is extremely important if you want to "see' very high frequency "stuff" in your waveforms. The other thing I don't like about the 24xx series is the move to LSI integrated circuits and switching power supplies. Good luck getting replacement I'C's if one goes, you then have to buy a parts scope.......
.

don't forget the 453 series and the 485. Even better sharp trace. But Mark: The only problem is that time goes by. You already have to buy spare scopes for your favoured 7xxx series. Because these also have a lot of LSI and other Tektronix only stuff that is already obsolete and sometimes unobtainable. Check with MikeB which night mare he is going to change the Vertical amp in the 466 (same amp in 465, 465B, 7633).

Well, no free lunch in life ;-)


hth,
Andreas

 

[Mark A. Gulbrandsen]

There are custom IC's in all TEK scopes. Some of those tek IC's are not customs but just house numbered and then some are customs. Of course spare parts have to come form another "junk" scope for any TEK crt scope since TEK disposed of all their parts. The main thing is to know who and where to look for those parts.

Mark

 

[tekman]

There are custom IC's in all TEK scopes. Some of those tek IC's are not customs but just house numbered and then some are customs. Of course spare parts have to come form another "junk" scope for any TEK crt scope since TEK disposed of all their parts. The main thing is to know who and where to look for those parts.

Well Mark,

there are not in all Tek scopes custom ICs. You are right for the newer ones, due to chnages in technology this is the way equipment evolves.

But there will be always friendly sources around to help with a repair or part for a fair price and doing a good job.
It's with your old car: The ones from the 70's you were able to repair most times yourself with a little bit of technical knowledge. The nowadays cars wiht a lot of extra electronics are nearly impossible to repair.

But that's life, isn't it? I guess there is a scope for everyones taste and everyones budget around.

Go and get one today ;-)


hth,
Andreas

 

[jackinnj]

there are not in all Tek scopes custom ICs. You are right for the newer ones, due to chnages in technology this is the way equipment evolves.

Can you get me a Miller Integrator chip for a busted 5L4N 🙂 ?

With used test equipment it's often a good idea to have two of everything -- Noah was correct.

 

[Mark A. Gulbrandsen]

Try posting on the Yahoo TEK Scopes group as there are ALOT of retired TEK field engineers, factory engineers and other TEK personel there, or check with Surplus Sales in Omaha, and with Sphere. You can probably get an entire extra module easier thasn just the IC itself. Also watch E-BAy.

Mark

 

[jackinnj]

Try posting on the Yahoo TEK Scopes group as there are ALOT of retired TEK field engineers, factory engineers and other TEK personel there, or check with Surplus Sales in Omaha, and with Sphere. You can probably get an entire extra module easier thasn just the IC itself. Also watch E-BAy.

Mark

it was just a trolling question -- this and other TEK chips can also be found in other plug-in's but with a similar or slightly different part numbers !!!

I have a collection of about 40 Tektronix plug-ins for 5XXX and 7XXX scopes, and the TM series of power-bays.

 

[apassgear]

@ apassgear:


well Tony if your comment is meant positve, thank I thank for it.
If it is meant ironical, then that's the wrong attitude

I guess we all here have subscribed in tih DIYaudio to share expereince in a positive way. At least I do try so. As I mentioned: These are my personal experiences. Others may have had other experiences. In my sense it doesn't make much sense to start any story with "I have heard this and that". Instead it makes real more sense when facts are put on the table and are shared.

Sorry Andreas if my post sounded ironical but it was never my intention.🙂

 

[jacco vermeulen]

no where near as well made as the earlier 45x and 46x series and older crts were

The 466 was produced by Tektronix up north overhere.
Any idea where the other types of the 45x and 46x series were made ?
Are all 45x and 46x models equally good ?

 

[Mark A. Gulbrandsen]

Most TEK stuff was manufactured in Beaverton, Oregon at TEK but some was foreign built like the Sony/TEK scopes and such. TEK also manufactured all but the very ealry CRT's at Beaverton. There is a list of vendors and a parts code so one can tell who make most of the parts in each TEK piece.
Mark

 

[apassgear]

Tony,

I have a 7704A and a 7904 scope and actually prefer the 7704A for audio work. I have it on a TEK cart and both my TM-500 series main frames fit right below it making for one VERY convenient and flexible measurement system. At the price that the 77xx and 79xx scopes are going for these days and the abundance of inexpensive surplus plug ins available they are probably the biggest steal in scopes today if one can accomodate their size.




Mark

Mark,
When the 77xx series came out it was my dream machine but never could i afford it but now that the years passed I found that these were giveaways so it was logical for me to get one. Is quite an impressive instrument and having all those plug-ins offered for $15 is a real bargain. There is a guy selling 12 of these at eBay and it was going for $30 for the lot…amazing.

Your setup on a cart is really interesting I’ve always thought about that 504 mainframe. How are those plug-ins? Do they really deliver?

😎

 

[jackinnj]

Mark,
When the 77xx series came out it was my dream machine but never could i afford it but now that the years passed I found that these were giveaways so it was logical for me to get one. Is quite an impressive instrument and having all those plug-ins offered for $15 is a real bargain. There is a guy selling 12 of these at eBay and it was going for $30 for the lot…amazing.

Your setup on a cart is really interesting I’ve always thought about that 504 mainframe. How are those plug-ins? Do they really deliver?

😎

I had a 7704A and it was a fabulous scope -- and it was "quiet" as well. I only got rid of it as I needed the space. When these came out they cost more than a car, a lot more.