audio-kraut said:
I'll stick to the answer given by the expert
"Some surfaces exposed long time to ultrasonics can erode. The aluminum foil is an example. But it only eroded the aluminum when the foil is thinner than 50 microns.
In general 40 kHz used like you do on plastics will not erode a surface"
Lars
Hi, Lars...
Brilliant execution of this project, as usual...
Your loudspeakers, some time ago, were excellent, too
The topic of using ultra sonic cleaners for vinyl was discussed some years ago. There were some concerns about the method opening up micro pits in the vinyl. It will be interesting to hear how this develops.
I'm seriously interested in this project, as I have a large pack of LPs that was played "wet" in the 70s...using the now infamous Lenco cleaner. The records are OK as such, but there's a fair amount of noise, possibly from grime in the grooves. I still have the Lenco cleaner, and when occasionally using it, the records are absolutely dead quiet again.
Halgeir
Brilliant execution of this project, as usual...
Your loudspeakers, some time ago, were excellent, too
The topic of using ultra sonic cleaners for vinyl was discussed some years ago. There were some concerns about the method opening up micro pits in the vinyl. It will be interesting to hear how this develops.
I'm seriously interested in this project, as I have a large pack of LPs that was played "wet" in the 70s...using the now infamous Lenco cleaner. The records are OK as such, but there's a fair amount of noise, possibly from grime in the grooves. I still have the Lenco cleaner, and when occasionally using it, the records are absolutely dead quiet again.
Halgeir
Since the first ultrasonic vinyl cleaner was built it has ben used a lot and testet for long term. And a lot of others with slightly different design have been bulit here in Norway. Inspired by what we have done, one has been built i USA too.
To find out if this type of cleaning is harmful to the microgrooves one LP was testet over a long period of time. It was in the cleaner and immersed in the cleaning solution for approx 200 hours. About 70 of these hours it was rotating.
After the test the vinyl grooves were inspected under two different microscopes. No damage or defectives could be observed. Nothing wrong could be heard.
Due to the very long time in the solution without rotation some dirt was adhered to the vinyl surface along the "shore zone" where the vinyl is partly wet or partly dry.
This is of noe concern since the extremely long time of testing is not realistic in the real life of the vinyl or of the vinyl enthusiast
To find out if this type of cleaning is harmful to the microgrooves one LP was testet over a long period of time. It was in the cleaner and immersed in the cleaning solution for approx 200 hours. About 70 of these hours it was rotating.
After the test the vinyl grooves were inspected under two different microscopes. No damage or defectives could be observed. Nothing wrong could be heard.
Due to the very long time in the solution without rotation some dirt was adhered to the vinyl surface along the "shore zone" where the vinyl is partly wet or partly dry.
This is of noe concern since the extremely long time of testing is not realistic in the real life of the vinyl or of the vinyl enthusiast
Ianmac said:
Hi Ianmac!
Maybe this thread could give you some inspiration of what design to choose? There are some different types here:
http://www.hifisentralen.no/forum/index.php?topic=24877.0
Sclalars
An Ultrasonic Cleaner has been purchased and will be here soon.
I have an idea as to how I will build the rotational mechanism and currently researching a suitable motor and drive gears or belt. Thinking of a telescopic mounting for the record holding mechanism so I can lift the motor/shaft up clear of the fluid for loading/ unloading and drop it down into the fluid to the correct depth .
Early days .
Will let you know how I get on
Ianmac
I have an idea as to how I will build the rotational mechanism and currently researching a suitable motor and drive gears or belt. Thinking of a telescopic mounting for the record holding mechanism so I can lift the motor/shaft up clear of the fluid for loading/ unloading and drop it down into the fluid to the correct depth .
Early days .
Will let you know how I get on
Ianmac
Wow cool project.
A couple of ideas. I am un-trusting of detergent being used as a surfactant. Check the bottle and if it says ionic and nonionic surfactant I would use something different. The ionic surfactant is what scares me - possible leeching of the vinyl. A pure non-ionic surfactant is recommended - something like triton X-114.
The drying step concerns me a little. Mainly because of the use of surfactant to break the surface tension the water will not bead up and fall off of the record but more cling to it - at least that's what I am guessing. Maybe if you could hook up like a vibrating motor to the axle to shake the fluid off of it? Just a thought.
Anyway jealous that you can clean so many records at once!
A couple of ideas. I am un-trusting of detergent being used as a surfactant. Check the bottle and if it says ionic and nonionic surfactant I would use something different. The ionic surfactant is what scares me - possible leeching of the vinyl. A pure non-ionic surfactant is recommended - something like triton X-114.
The drying step concerns me a little. Mainly because of the use of surfactant to break the surface tension the water will not bead up and fall off of the record but more cling to it - at least that's what I am guessing. Maybe if you could hook up like a vibrating motor to the axle to shake the fluid off of it? Just a thought.
Anyway jealous that you can clean so many records at once!
Sclalars, I am engaging in a similar project using ultrasonics and would appreciate a dialog with you regarding some of your results. I'm wondering if you could contact me on my email to go over some of your experiences. More particulary the results you've learned relative to noise before and after cleaning.
Don
Don
Sclalars
Excellent work!
A lot of critical technical parameters regarding ultrasonic cleaning can be found here
The scary high temperatures reported have been confirmed by introducing various metals in powder form into the ultrasonic bath. Then, inspecting them under microscope, they observed signs of melting on their surface.
Best Regards
George
Excellent work!
A lot of critical technical parameters regarding ultrasonic cleaning can be found here
The scary high temperatures reported have been confirmed by introducing various metals in powder form into the ultrasonic bath. Then, inspecting them under microscope, they observed signs of melting on their surface.
Best Regards
George
The metal used for testing is very thin. About 50u and made of aluminium.
Very, very different from vinyl.
The ultrasonic washers tested with these aluminium sheets are "industrial size" type with high power transducers.
We have cleaned a lot of records with excellent result. The only damage found when inspecting one record in microscope were an overheated part of the vinyl due to the heat from the light source.
These lamps are very HOT!
Very, very different from vinyl.
The ultrasonic washers tested with these aluminium sheets are "industrial size" type with high power transducers.
We have cleaned a lot of records with excellent result. The only damage found when inspecting one record in microscope were an overheated part of the vinyl due to the heat from the light source.
These lamps are very HOT!
qpapaq wrote:
"A lot of critical technical parameters regarding ultrasonic cleaning can be found here
The scary high temperatures reported have been confirmed by introducing various metals in powder form into the ultrasonic bath. Then, inspecting them under microscope, they observed signs of melting on their surface.
Best Regards
George"
The tanks we are using are relatively small. About 6500 cc.
Small compared to tanks up to 2000 liters.
The transducers are not high power.
I have not found any information on ultrasonic damage to vinyl components. The practical (not scientific) testing and using of these cleaners shows no damage or degradation of the grooves.
Clean sounding music is the result.
"A lot of critical technical parameters regarding ultrasonic cleaning can be found here
The scary high temperatures reported have been confirmed by introducing various metals in powder form into the ultrasonic bath. Then, inspecting them under microscope, they observed signs of melting on their surface.
Best Regards
George"
The tanks we are using are relatively small. About 6500 cc.
Small compared to tanks up to 2000 liters.
The transducers are not high power.
I have not found any information on ultrasonic damage to vinyl components. The practical (not scientific) testing and using of these cleaners shows no damage or degradation of the grooves.
Clean sounding music is the result.
Cleaner built. 99% complete, I need to screen the motor from possible water ingress and finalise the power supply- 5volts@200ma.
Test cleans today using Scottish water with one drop of washing up. two cycles of 5mins @1 revpm are extremely encouraging.
I have sent hours modding decks and tweaking. The improvement from proper cleaning the actual source of the sound signal has to be heard.
My design is based on a small cleaner, just of adequate size to accept the tracks of a disc. On reflection a larger cleaner would have made life easier but I had a budget.
The record transport clamps onto the cleaner so it can be removed if needed and will not affect the warranty.
It is a telescopic design so I can lift the mechanism out of the water for easy loading unloading and removal
I appreciate I have not used Isopropyl Alcohol yet.
What are the cleaning periods being used by others??
Trying to figure out how to attach a photo??
Ianmac
Test cleans today using Scottish water with one drop of washing up. two cycles of 5mins @1 revpm are extremely encouraging.
I have sent hours modding decks and tweaking. The improvement from proper cleaning the actual source of the sound signal has to be heard.
My design is based on a small cleaner, just of adequate size to accept the tracks of a disc. On reflection a larger cleaner would have made life easier but I had a budget.
The record transport clamps onto the cleaner so it can be removed if needed and will not affect the warranty.
It is a telescopic design so I can lift the mechanism out of the water for easy loading unloading and removal
I appreciate I have not used Isopropyl Alcohol yet.
What are the cleaning periods being used by others??
Trying to figure out how to attach a photo??
Ianmac
- Status
- This old topic is closed. If you want to reopen this topic, contact a moderator using the "Report Post" button.