Andre Visser said:
fredex said:
Those are definitely things to consider. And to be sure- the malfunction I experienced wasnt anything like a 'shift in imaging' or a 'masking of inner detail', or changes in balance or dynamics. This was more like listening to an AM 960 on 970 or 950. Just spurious noises vaguely following a rhythm. A strange, temporary amp interaction with some new, long, crappy cables does sound like something to consider. Maybe I was too hasty blaming the cables in and of themselves, but I wouldn't expect an old, mid-fi sony receiver to have problems driving different lengths of cable. Though Ive never measured, I've always assumed my speakers of average sensitivity presented a fairly easy load also.
I had never experienced such a thing, and haven't since.
But who knows. It appears Ive found more questions than answers(no, really?). 🙂 I guess every cable swap will a little more exciting for me in the future!
Thanks for the input, all. Has anybody else ever experienced something this extreme from such a 'simple' swap?
Gooday I can not hear electrons moving in wire at the speed of light . Maybe I am too human . It is all in the mind . As you found out . Alan .
2.5e30 said:
Since you have noticed the same problem with all sources it was most propably something with the amp,or perhaps a bad mains connection?
I put an notch filter on my active XO, and the result was the overall system sounds better. Peak was removed. I listened to it for a day with great pleasure.
.... until I measured the speaker response and wtf. there was no notch!! .. It appears that I implemented the circuit wrongly.
Now, that was a -4db notch. Human ears/brain is not to be trusted. Imagine what it would do to cable swapping activity.
No. Cable does not make damn difference, unless confirmed by measurements.
.... until I measured the speaker response and wtf. there was no notch!! .. It appears that I implemented the circuit wrongly.
Now, that was a -4db notch. Human ears/brain is not to be trusted. Imagine what it would do to cable swapping activity.
No. Cable does not make damn difference, unless confirmed by measurements.
gainphile said:
I think it is your ears that are not to be trusted😀 😀 😀
Shame that the LCR meter has been invented,otherwise,your cables would have zero impedance,inductance and capacitance
didn't bother reading all the posts, but thought i would add my two cents.
i've heard HUGE differences from cable.
it started back in the early eighties when my friend upgraded his fulton silver to fulton gold. a HUGE difference from really good to really better.
he had exposure IV pre and amp, thorens with $700 grado, and castle towers.
i can still hear it in my mind's ear. awesome stuff. his friend we visited one time had conrad johnson speakers, sumo amplifier, some glass turntable and other awesome shyte.
my ears are trained to the diff between hifi and notsomuch.
that said, i re-wired my little 80's sanyo ghetto blaster swapping out the microscopic speaker wire for lamp wire, and, ....it sounded WAY better! deeper bass, higher highs, tighter everything...
and, ever since, i have always tried to get the thickest, cheapest wire i can, and i can always hear a difference when i swap out the spider web strand for the thick stuff.
recently, i swapped out some 16 guage radio shack "speaker wire" for 12 gauge wire single strand wire used for wiring electricity through buildings. i hooked up one speaker with the new wire, and left the other with the old, and then a had an unbiased 14 yr. old ear tell me which one sounded better (i already KNEW, but, i wanted to teach the child a little something), and it was CLEAR as a BELL that the 12 gauge was FAR superior.
if i could afford it, i'd like to compare the single strand with some esoteric braided stuff, because in my (simple) science mind, i can't see how anything could be better than a huge single strand of copper (gold/silver being cost prohibitive).
it cost me $20 dollars for the 12 guage, and almost the same for the 16 gauge "speaker wire" from radio shack/circuit city.
i do know that there was a HUGE difference in the clarity, crispness and presence of the speaker. i don't know if super expensive stuff would sound any better.
i've heard HUGE differences from cable.
it started back in the early eighties when my friend upgraded his fulton silver to fulton gold. a HUGE difference from really good to really better.
he had exposure IV pre and amp, thorens with $700 grado, and castle towers.
i can still hear it in my mind's ear. awesome stuff. his friend we visited one time had conrad johnson speakers, sumo amplifier, some glass turntable and other awesome shyte.
my ears are trained to the diff between hifi and notsomuch.
that said, i re-wired my little 80's sanyo ghetto blaster swapping out the microscopic speaker wire for lamp wire, and, ....it sounded WAY better! deeper bass, higher highs, tighter everything...
and, ever since, i have always tried to get the thickest, cheapest wire i can, and i can always hear a difference when i swap out the spider web strand for the thick stuff.
recently, i swapped out some 16 guage radio shack "speaker wire" for 12 gauge wire single strand wire used for wiring electricity through buildings. i hooked up one speaker with the new wire, and left the other with the old, and then a had an unbiased 14 yr. old ear tell me which one sounded better (i already KNEW, but, i wanted to teach the child a little something), and it was CLEAR as a BELL that the 12 gauge was FAR superior.
if i could afford it, i'd like to compare the single strand with some esoteric braided stuff, because in my (simple) science mind, i can't see how anything could be better than a huge single strand of copper (gold/silver being cost prohibitive).
it cost me $20 dollars for the 12 guage, and almost the same for the 16 gauge "speaker wire" from radio shack/circuit city.
i do know that there was a HUGE difference in the clarity, crispness and presence of the speaker. i don't know if super expensive stuff would sound any better.
Duke,
And anyone else who likes to fiddle about with wire, go read this thread and try out what is suggested.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1213239#post1213239
Bud
And anyone else who likes to fiddle about with wire, go read this thread and try out what is suggested.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1213239#post1213239
Bud
Hey new guy here🙂
I only read the first two pages so I don't know if this was said already,but...
Maybe the reason the OP got such test results was because the cables he got from Radio Shack are indeed QUALITY product?
I mean they are called "Gold Selects"for a reason right?🙂
It doesn't mean that really REALLY cheapo cables will perform as well as the 500$ a pair ones will,Lol
Also I have a problem but am being blocked from posting a new thread about it so I'm asking here...
I've got a pair of Sony SFF7000's with Sony's 4.1 Channel amp🙂
Sony was lazy/cheap in providing good polyfil damping for the tweets and mids, but left the lower half with the subs dry!
So I'm getting a very annoying hum at certain bass frequencies and am going to fix it🙂
How the heck do I get the drivers out from my cabinets??
The screws take an Allen wrench but are made of plastic...
So using a metal Allen wrench does nothing but chew up the screw head!
Can I get some rubber tipped or plastic Allens that will do the job?
And I did search the forum with the key words"Plastic Allen screws" and"Rubber tipped Allen wrenches"and got no results.
So I'm assuming my inability to post is due to an undiscerning word filter😛
I only read the first two pages so I don't know if this was said already,but...
Maybe the reason the OP got such test results was because the cables he got from Radio Shack are indeed QUALITY product?
I mean they are called "Gold Selects"for a reason right?🙂
It doesn't mean that really REALLY cheapo cables will perform as well as the 500$ a pair ones will,Lol
Also I have a problem but am being blocked from posting a new thread about it so I'm asking here...
I've got a pair of Sony SFF7000's with Sony's 4.1 Channel amp🙂
Sony was lazy/cheap in providing good polyfil damping for the tweets and mids, but left the lower half with the subs dry!
So I'm getting a very annoying hum at certain bass frequencies and am going to fix it🙂
How the heck do I get the drivers out from my cabinets??
The screws take an Allen wrench but are made of plastic...
So using a metal Allen wrench does nothing but chew up the screw head!
Can I get some rubber tipped or plastic Allens that will do the job?
And I did search the forum with the key words"Plastic Allen screws" and"Rubber tipped Allen wrenches"and got no results.
So I'm assuming my inability to post is due to an undiscerning word filter😛
Sir_Foggy said:
Welcome to the forum. 🙂
When starting a new thread you have to click the ' have you searched?' button towards the top left.
(Or maybe it's something to do with the software upgrade.)
Hi,
Next time you may want to try the thinnest (with respect to the peak current it needs to carry) solid core wire with a nice PTFE sleeve for your mods.
Cheers, 😉
P.S. Later on I'll suggest the next step to Nirvana....😀
Next time you may want to try the thinnest (with respect to the peak current it needs to carry) solid core wire with a nice PTFE sleeve for your mods.
Cheers, 😉
P.S. Later on I'll suggest the next step to Nirvana....😀
Best fix?
Perhaps the best cable is no cable at all, eh? How about comparing the "good" cables with no cables at all... that should clearly demonstrate whether cables make a difference
Perhaps the best cable is no cable at all, eh? How about comparing the "good" cables with no cables at all... that should clearly demonstrate whether cables make a difference
Expensive cables certainly sound better than no cable at all.
I would even go as far as stating that expensive cables usually sound better than much thinner (speaker) cables with bad connectors.
Do expensive cables sound better than well constructed cheap cables?
No
No scientific evidence has ever been provided to indicate this could be true. As for evidence outside the realms of science? Well, I don't believe in magic.
This fact, of course, will not stop these wonderful discussions from going on for ever. The reason is that we are not talking about aircraft design where reality eventually hits the ground. Audiophiles can lead long, contented lives without ever being faced with the truth.
Al
I would even go as far as stating that expensive cables usually sound better than much thinner (speaker) cables with bad connectors.
Do expensive cables sound better than well constructed cheap cables?
No
No scientific evidence has ever been provided to indicate this could be true. As for evidence outside the realms of science? Well, I don't believe in magic.
This fact, of course, will not stop these wonderful discussions from going on for ever. The reason is that we are not talking about aircraft design where reality eventually hits the ground. Audiophiles can lead long, contented lives without ever being faced with the truth.
Al
Panicos K said:
Ho ho ho....
100% true if you conduct controlled listening tests (hint: you don't)
100% illusion for all other listening
Panicos K said:
Maybe we should start selling high end audiophile quality air core cables, for no less than 5000$ per meter.
With this price tag, they should get raving reviews from all the usual suspects.
To: tnargs
The only thing measurements prove is that you cannot measure all audible diferences.I am one of the very few here who actually did tests,and also accepted many challenges.It is up to you to accept mine.As a non engineer,I've been thinking of ways to get some answers that real engineers cannot give.Last week,a very good friend and a good engineer who believes the same things as you do,was here at my house with two more friends.I asked him to tell me about his opinion on two cartridges after listening to them.I had both on headshells for easy changes.He wasn't supposed to know which cartridge was in use.Without being noticed,I have left the second cartridge on a shelf behind him,and the "test"began.He also did not have any visual contact with the turntable.I was "changing "cartridges whenever he was telling me.What I was actually changing was the tonearm cable,my turntable has RCA output cockets.He got five out of five and he was shocked when I tokd him what he was listenig to.And to prove to him that his hearing was better than his measurements,I showed him the second cartridge behind him.There are many engineers among you who would hear what my engineer friend did,but their brains tell then otherwise,not to mention their heart ego when they have to believe their senses.For me the blind test has been successfully done with an "extremist" engineer under test.Coins always have two sides.You are on the one,I'm on the other.Some day you will be on the other side,but you have to give your senses an explanation why it took you so long to be "human",not a machine 🙂
The only thing measurements prove is that you cannot measure all audible diferences.I am one of the very few here who actually did tests,and also accepted many challenges.It is up to you to accept mine.As a non engineer,I've been thinking of ways to get some answers that real engineers cannot give.Last week,a very good friend and a good engineer who believes the same things as you do,was here at my house with two more friends.I asked him to tell me about his opinion on two cartridges after listening to them.I had both on headshells for easy changes.He wasn't supposed to know which cartridge was in use.Without being noticed,I have left the second cartridge on a shelf behind him,and the "test"began.He also did not have any visual contact with the turntable.I was "changing "cartridges whenever he was telling me.What I was actually changing was the tonearm cable,my turntable has RCA output cockets.He got five out of five and he was shocked when I tokd him what he was listenig to.And to prove to him that his hearing was better than his measurements,I showed him the second cartridge behind him.There are many engineers among you who would hear what my engineer friend did,but their brains tell then otherwise,not to mention their heart ego when they have to believe their senses.For me the blind test has been successfully done with an "extremist" engineer under test.Coins always have two sides.You are on the one,I'm on the other.Some day you will be on the other side,but you have to give your senses an explanation why it took you so long to be "human",not a machine 🙂
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