I added a standalone document that describes the integration of the Celestion Axi2050, its measurements, and subjective listening impressions. This pdf document also discusses the subjective impressions of the throat-mounted "phase plug extension". This is information that was migrated from another audio forum for ease of access and assumed better longevity of archiving reliability at this site.
Lastly, I added a 3-D print file of a open-source phase plug extension for local 3-D printing. Various estimates have been ~$100 (USD) to have these printed by a 3-D printing service.
Please let me know if there are any issues understanding the information contained in any of these documents.
Chris
Lastly, I added a 3-D print file of a open-source phase plug extension for local 3-D printing. Various estimates have been ~$100 (USD) to have these printed by a 3-D printing service.
Please let me know if there are any issues understanding the information contained in any of these documents.
Chris
The "phase plug extension" (i.e., more like a throat diverging lens) I know works with TAD TD-4002/K-402s and BMS 4592ND/K-402-MEH. That's actually how I know it works as a lens, and not so much as a "phase plug extension".
That would have an effect on any future attempt to patent the device (which haven't yet been disclosed), since it clearly isn't a phase plug extension used with drivers other than the Axi2050.
Chris
That would have an effect on any future attempt to patent the device (which haven't yet been disclosed), since it clearly isn't a phase plug extension used with drivers other than the Axi2050.
Chris
I just posted an update to the "Best Compression Drivers today 2022?" thread detailing the now-revealed patent pending status and pdf of the patent application of the "phase plug extender". If and when that patent issues, you can be sure that the 3D print file at the top of this thread will disappear.
Just FYI.
Chris
Just FYI.
Chris
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Actually, it is an external phase plug extension. That what I call it, you know…….since I kinda came up with it.
Just noticed the post by, uh, you know, and am kind of surprised something like that could have a patent on it.
Rather basic piece. The word generic comes to mind. Of course, we live in a world where the clever think they can patent words that are in the dictionary.
Of course, I know you are a gentleman and have no desire to engage in schoolyard antics.
Oh, well ...
Rather basic piece. The word generic comes to mind. Of course, we live in a world where the clever think they can patent words that are in the dictionary.
Of course, I know you are a gentleman and have no desire to engage in schoolyard antics.
Oh, well ...
Thanks Chris! I've been appreciating your detailed contributions on other forum posts also.
I have two axi2050s and an EV DX38. In your experience, do you think I would be able to set up these drivers accurately enough with the DX38 compared to the Xilica? The DX38 has fewer EQ points to play with I believe.
The EV Dx38 (of which I still own one) has fewer output channel PEQs than the Xilica XP/XD series, so the balance of PEQs that might be needed for the HF channels have to come from the input channel PEQs (i.e., before the crossover filters). If your bass bin doesn't require very much EQ correction, then the Dx38 should work. In the case of the Dx38, I would try to minimize the use of closely-spaced (a.k.a., competing) PEQ settings, since it will tend to "lock up" if too many PEQs are too closely together and at too high gain.
Chris
Chris
Just a note in passing: based on an extensive dial-in trial using a Heritage Jubilee (the expensive second-gen one) and a miniDSP Flex crossover, I cannot recommend using this crossover for Jubilee duty as it apparently has unavoidable audible distortion. If you want more information on this subject, send me a personal message.
The best DSP crossover that I've tried myself thus far for Jubilee duty or K-402-MEH duty has been the Xilica XP or XD series. I'm told that the successor to the Xilica XP/XD series is the Solaro (a Dante-based processor), and that its performance on a pair of K-402-MEHs is superior to even the XP series (...although I hear no defects at all with the XP series, which to my ears is totally neutral). The XP series was available in the US for about a year or two after Xilica apparently ended sales worldwide elsewhere, but I believe even the US availability has dried up. It was the apparent price/performance leader for Jubilee-capable loudspeakers while in production.
Apparently the Solaro with two plugin I/O modules/cards is about twice the price of the original XP series...making it a few more dollars than the XD series--about $2K to $2.5K--about the price of a used First Watt amplifier.
I do not recommend trying to use cheaper DSP crossovers with the Jubilees, either the first-generation Jubs from ca. 2006, or the second generation Jubs from 2022 to replace the Klipsch-provided DSP box that has a couple of serious issues, like 1) it is a fixed DSP box that cannot be used to dial-in the Jubilees in-room (including trying to correct for far too much deep bass boost for most home hi-fi listening rooms), and 2) it uses uncompensated steep IIR crossover filters that wrap-up the phase and group delay response to audible distortion levels. (For the price, Klipsch could have easily provided a FIR-filter box with flat phase/group delay response.)
I've heard unanimous complaints about Klipsch's DSP box to date. If you are trying to deal with this using a pair of Heritage Jubilees and want to try another DSP box to solve these issues, shoot me a personal message and I can provide settings information and dial-in email support (using something like REW as the acoustic measurement app) to custom dial-in the Jubs to your room's acoustics and loudspeaker placement in-room. The difference in subjective sound quality is said to be a dramatic.
One more bit of information: if you happen to acquire Heritage Jubilees and you presently own a pair of TAD TD-4002 compression drivers, I recommend hanging on to those TADs. If you wish to discuss this further, send me a personal message.
Chris
The best DSP crossover that I've tried myself thus far for Jubilee duty or K-402-MEH duty has been the Xilica XP or XD series. I'm told that the successor to the Xilica XP/XD series is the Solaro (a Dante-based processor), and that its performance on a pair of K-402-MEHs is superior to even the XP series (...although I hear no defects at all with the XP series, which to my ears is totally neutral). The XP series was available in the US for about a year or two after Xilica apparently ended sales worldwide elsewhere, but I believe even the US availability has dried up. It was the apparent price/performance leader for Jubilee-capable loudspeakers while in production.
Apparently the Solaro with two plugin I/O modules/cards is about twice the price of the original XP series...making it a few more dollars than the XD series--about $2K to $2.5K--about the price of a used First Watt amplifier.
I do not recommend trying to use cheaper DSP crossovers with the Jubilees, either the first-generation Jubs from ca. 2006, or the second generation Jubs from 2022 to replace the Klipsch-provided DSP box that has a couple of serious issues, like 1) it is a fixed DSP box that cannot be used to dial-in the Jubilees in-room (including trying to correct for far too much deep bass boost for most home hi-fi listening rooms), and 2) it uses uncompensated steep IIR crossover filters that wrap-up the phase and group delay response to audible distortion levels. (For the price, Klipsch could have easily provided a FIR-filter box with flat phase/group delay response.)
I've heard unanimous complaints about Klipsch's DSP box to date. If you are trying to deal with this using a pair of Heritage Jubilees and want to try another DSP box to solve these issues, shoot me a personal message and I can provide settings information and dial-in email support (using something like REW as the acoustic measurement app) to custom dial-in the Jubs to your room's acoustics and loudspeaker placement in-room. The difference in subjective sound quality is said to be a dramatic.
One more bit of information: if you happen to acquire Heritage Jubilees and you presently own a pair of TAD TD-4002 compression drivers, I recommend hanging on to those TADs. If you wish to discuss this further, send me a personal message.
Chris
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I would add, for those thinking about using the SOLARA with DANTE (you do not have to get the DANTE card if you are going to use the plug in modules), my experience.
You can no longer get AES EBU modules. Which led me to the next step below.
Consider getting something like the FOCUSRITE REDNET 16r. With this you will have an XLR AES jack that you can use as the input and use the DB25 cables for 15 outputs.
A MUTEC MC3+USB is connected to the AES input coming from a music computer with all files resampled to 24/96 so there is no conversion required down the line. All remains digital from the computer to the DACs. There is a 10HMz clock from Andrea Mori connected to the MUTEC. There is a clock line from the MUTEC to the FOCUSRITE box.
To use DANTE one needs a good managed switch. A small CISCO (that you can get from AMAZON) is set up using the DANTE recommendations.
For LP I am using an RME ADC which goes to the MUTEC and then to the rest.
It is not cheap even when I got my Focusrite box used. I am not a BURMESTER customer so my definition of expensive is somewhere in the middle.
I started out using the plug in modules - if anyone wants some. When they stopped selling the AES EBU modules I knew I had to do something different and that led to the FOCUSRITE and using the DANTE card. I got the XILICA as a returned item. It had the DANTE card and that was thrown in. At the time I never thought I would use it. Very skeptical of what it would do to the signal. I liked the idea of the blue front panel instead of the black.
Never looked inside the XP box but the SOLARA is using a smps. I think some speculated the XPs had a linear supply. I would tend to doubt it but I never removed the cover of the XPs. You have to open the SOLARA to get to the plug in cards.
DANTE is nothing to fear. It sounds transparent to me and it makes making changes to a complicated system easy.
I would think Chris A could really use it.
The SOLARA offers immense capabilities compared to the even the "largest" XP series. I used two smaller versions based on Chris A's recommendations.
There is not much written about this device so I thought I would try to make up the difference.
You can no longer get AES EBU modules. Which led me to the next step below.
Consider getting something like the FOCUSRITE REDNET 16r. With this you will have an XLR AES jack that you can use as the input and use the DB25 cables for 15 outputs.
A MUTEC MC3+USB is connected to the AES input coming from a music computer with all files resampled to 24/96 so there is no conversion required down the line. All remains digital from the computer to the DACs. There is a 10HMz clock from Andrea Mori connected to the MUTEC. There is a clock line from the MUTEC to the FOCUSRITE box.
To use DANTE one needs a good managed switch. A small CISCO (that you can get from AMAZON) is set up using the DANTE recommendations.
For LP I am using an RME ADC which goes to the MUTEC and then to the rest.
It is not cheap even when I got my Focusrite box used. I am not a BURMESTER customer so my definition of expensive is somewhere in the middle.
I started out using the plug in modules - if anyone wants some. When they stopped selling the AES EBU modules I knew I had to do something different and that led to the FOCUSRITE and using the DANTE card. I got the XILICA as a returned item. It had the DANTE card and that was thrown in. At the time I never thought I would use it. Very skeptical of what it would do to the signal. I liked the idea of the blue front panel instead of the black.
Never looked inside the XP box but the SOLARA is using a smps. I think some speculated the XPs had a linear supply. I would tend to doubt it but I never removed the cover of the XPs. You have to open the SOLARA to get to the plug in cards.
DANTE is nothing to fear. It sounds transparent to me and it makes making changes to a complicated system easy.
I would think Chris A could really use it.
The SOLARA offers immense capabilities compared to the even the "largest" XP series. I used two smaller versions based on Chris A's recommendations.
There is not much written about this device so I thought I would try to make up the difference.