I think at this point I'm going to join Joe in backing out of the design. I'm throwing in the towel.
As much as I admire and have defended Punkrokr for wanting to build his Monster Truck - Monster Speakers, this thread has just spiraled out of control. The design has grown beyond any reason. (not that reason was ever a goal)
The Blue Wonder Project at Parts Express is ideal for Punkrokr's needs. There is no reason for him not to build it. Add another sub later, if you really want it. No problem. You might even look at a horn loaded sub.
In defense of the design so far, it's not going to be awful, nor will it be much better or worse than the Blue Wonder - IF it gets done right. And that's not going to be easy, considering how long it took us to even come close to this design .
We're just building a "Double Blue" with active crossover. But Joe is right – why spend the extra money, time and headache for a project that will only be a little louder than the Blue Wonder?
Think about how the Blue Wonder came about. P.E. got lots of email from guys wanting to use the Magna project as a DJ rig. At the same time, P.E. had two good pro drivers on buy out - the Hammer 8 & 18. Eureka! So Darren puts them in a box, finds a tweeter that will keep up, builds and tweaks a nice simple crossover and Voila! Birth of the Blues.
What advantage does Darren Kuzma have over us? He has built a LOT of speakers. He has so many parts and pieces at his disposal that he can quickly put together a good sounding project. Most importantly he has the experience and knowledge to make good choices fast. And here is the kicker - he gets to hear it! We never will, so we won't know how to tweak it.
The Blue Wonders really are the ideal project for Mr. P. He can always add subs later. For a great price he will have a nice, big, loud speaker. It won't even need a lot of power to play really loud at home. Wall shaking loud.
As we haven't been able to settle on a design after almost 650 posts, it is time to fold. Game over.
Punkrokr. Build the Blues. Add a sub later. Less money - and all the speaker you could ever want. Guaranteed results. Nuff said.
As much as I admire and have defended Punkrokr for wanting to build his Monster Truck - Monster Speakers, this thread has just spiraled out of control. The design has grown beyond any reason. (not that reason was ever a goal)
The Blue Wonder Project at Parts Express is ideal for Punkrokr's needs. There is no reason for him not to build it. Add another sub later, if you really want it. No problem. You might even look at a horn loaded sub.
In defense of the design so far, it's not going to be awful, nor will it be much better or worse than the Blue Wonder - IF it gets done right. And that's not going to be easy, considering how long it took us to even come close to this design .
We're just building a "Double Blue" with active crossover. But Joe is right – why spend the extra money, time and headache for a project that will only be a little louder than the Blue Wonder?Think about how the Blue Wonder came about. P.E. got lots of email from guys wanting to use the Magna project as a DJ rig. At the same time, P.E. had two good pro drivers on buy out - the Hammer 8 & 18. Eureka! So Darren puts them in a box, finds a tweeter that will keep up, builds and tweaks a nice simple crossover and Voila! Birth of the Blues.
What advantage does Darren Kuzma have over us? He has built a LOT of speakers. He has so many parts and pieces at his disposal that he can quickly put together a good sounding project. Most importantly he has the experience and knowledge to make good choices fast. And here is the kicker - he gets to hear it! We never will, so we won't know how to tweak it.
The Blue Wonders really are the ideal project for Mr. P. He can always add subs later. For a great price he will have a nice, big, loud speaker. It won't even need a lot of power to play really loud at home. Wall shaking loud.
As we haven't been able to settle on a design after almost 650 posts, it is time to fold. Game over.
Punkrokr. Build the Blues. Add a sub later. Less money - and all the speaker you could ever want. Guaranteed results. Nuff said.
panomaniac said:
Well, I kept seeing this thread coming back up to the top.
So finally, I thought - I'm going to go to the last page and see what it's about, no way I'm gonna read thru 642 posts.
I think I'm glad I missed the thread _grin_
well, I hate to see pano and joe go but i just can't suddenly decide oh look "Blue Wonders!" and decide I'm gonna build them.
Sorry, I know to all of you guys reading this that I'm not learning anything and just trying to prove something that wrong. Ok so it seems that none really agree with my idea of 6 ft tall speakers, Ok, I accept that just one thing looka t these opals again.
Sorry, I know to all of you guys reading this that I'm not learning anything and just trying to prove something that wrong. Ok so it seems that none really agree with my idea of 6 ft tall speakers, Ok, I accept that just one thing looka t these opals again.
Attachments
Notice something? Yes? They're 8 ft. They have dual ridiculous 27" woofers in each of them, a 15" mid, horn loaded tweeter/ Only thing is there's an ultra high frequency driver on them that I'm not gonna bother with. See what I'm getting at?
I'm basically modeling my speakers after those 8 foot tall monsters. Sure I'm no professional, I can't design a crossover, I can't do this and I can't do this, ok, fine I get it. I may not be able to make anything like the Opals but I sure as hell think I can come out with a decent sounding system if I take my time and do it right.
And I just don'tget something here. Those opals are in a room that can't be any bigger than 800ft^2 at the most and that's gonna be about the size of the room I'll be playing mine in. Those speaker posted a while back with 21" Madisons where in a basement which I know can't be big. Still both those speakers get more recognition tha I could ever wish for but I get my idea turned down when I want to build something that's not even close the Mrs. 21"'s set up or the Opals. I know both those speakers can't be far off from what I'm doing.
Well... panos gone, Cal's gone. Joe's gone and I feel like an idiot. Maybe I should just invest my money elsewhere and just continue using my Panasonic system with 6 1/2 woofers and a 5 inch sub. wow, really big!
I was psyched about the speaker up until this page started..
Well, I'm out
I'm basically modeling my speakers after those 8 foot tall monsters. Sure I'm no professional, I can't design a crossover, I can't do this and I can't do this, ok, fine I get it. I may not be able to make anything like the Opals but I sure as hell think I can come out with a decent sounding system if I take my time and do it right.
And I just don'tget something here. Those opals are in a room that can't be any bigger than 800ft^2 at the most and that's gonna be about the size of the room I'll be playing mine in. Those speaker posted a while back with 21" Madisons where in a basement which I know can't be big. Still both those speakers get more recognition tha I could ever wish for but I get my idea turned down when I want to build something that's not even close the Mrs. 21"'s set up or the Opals. I know both those speakers can't be far off from what I'm doing.
Well... panos gone, Cal's gone. Joe's gone and I feel like an idiot. Maybe I should just invest my money elsewhere and just continue using my Panasonic system with 6 1/2 woofers and a 5 inch sub. wow, really big!
I was psyched about the speaker up until this page started..
Well, I'm out
If you want big, big sound, I still see a few options:
1) Build the blue, but with a second 18" woofer in a box as a speaker stand. You could even build them all into a single monolith, if that's what you want. You still get your 6 foot speaker.
2) Consider actual PA gear. As an example, here's a set of used speakers that would be louder and more sensitive than what has been suggested for you to build: http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-PA-Speakers...yZ132999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
For $300 and pickup... you'd just need to add a sub for 20hz-50hz.
3) If it's really about learning how to do it, and building something you designed yourself- start out a little smaller. This project has way too much pressure for superlatives and getting it right the first time. Work your way up to it, or just build your own subs. You can save a lot of money by building subs, and they're easier to get right the first time than full range speakers.
1) Build the blue, but with a second 18" woofer in a box as a speaker stand. You could even build them all into a single monolith, if that's what you want. You still get your 6 foot speaker.
2) Consider actual PA gear. As an example, here's a set of used speakers that would be louder and more sensitive than what has been suggested for you to build: http://cgi.ebay.com/JBL-PA-Speakers...yZ132999QQssPageNameZWDVWQQrdZ1QQcmdZViewItem
For $300 and pickup... you'd just need to add a sub for 20hz-50hz.
3) If it's really about learning how to do it, and building something you designed yourself- start out a little smaller. This project has way too much pressure for superlatives and getting it right the first time. Work your way up to it, or just build your own subs. You can save a lot of money by building subs, and they're easier to get right the first time than full range speakers.
Those JBL on eBay that Joe pointed out are a great bargain. $500? Cheap! Go look at the price of JBL drivers. 😱
EDIT: The parts cost of the Blue Wonders is $750 with shipping. And you still have to supply labor and lumber. Look really hard at those JBLs before they're gone.
There isn't anything wrong with the Opals or Magnetar's system, but they were NOT put together by a 1st time speaker builder, not even with help. Not Cheap, either.
I feel pretty sure that I could build a system like you're dreaming of with a lot of a hard work, but I don't think you can, even with all the goodwill and internet help in the world. Sorry.
There is nothing wrong with the Blue Wonders, except that you just don't like them. Joe is right about the added sub. It's exactly what I was thinking. If you really must have twin 18s, buy 4 of the Hammer 18s. Get the Blue Wonders up and running, then add the 2nd set of 18s on the top or bottom. We won't convince you that you don't need them, so get 'em. Build the blues, then we'll talk.
Stack up the Blues and extra 18s and what have you got? Your giant speaker. And it will sound good, guarantied.
But if it were me, I'd jump on those JBLs. They rock. And you can easily resell them, if you want to. Can't go up to New York to get them? Have a shipper come pick them up. As long as the guy doesn't have to ship them himself, he shouldn't mind.. (Check with him about it 1st)
Those are your best two options.
EDIT: The parts cost of the Blue Wonders is $750 with shipping. And you still have to supply labor and lumber. Look really hard at those JBLs before they're gone.
There isn't anything wrong with the Opals or Magnetar's system, but they were NOT put together by a 1st time speaker builder, not even with help. Not Cheap, either.
I feel pretty sure that I could build a system like you're dreaming of with a lot of a hard work, but I don't think you can, even with all the goodwill and internet help in the world. Sorry.
There is nothing wrong with the Blue Wonders, except that you just don't like them. Joe is right about the added sub. It's exactly what I was thinking. If you really must have twin 18s, buy 4 of the Hammer 18s. Get the Blue Wonders up and running, then add the 2nd set of 18s on the top or bottom. We won't convince you that you don't need them, so get 'em. Build the blues, then we'll talk.
Stack up the Blues and extra 18s and what have you got? Your giant speaker. And it will sound good, guarantied.
But if it were me, I'd jump on those JBLs. They rock. And you can easily resell them, if you want to. Can't go up to New York to get them? Have a shipper come pick them up. As long as the guy doesn't have to ship them himself, he shouldn't mind.. (Check with him about it 1st)
Those are your best two options.
get the JBLs, get the JBls, get the JBLs, get the JBls, get the JBLs, get the JBls, get the JBLs, get the JBls.....
You won't be sorry.
You won't be sorry.
I just did some googling, and I can't find anything at all about the CP-9000s. They're made by Sharp Electronics? What's their sensitivity? What's their power handling?
I would LOVE to get those JBL's but here's the problem. Instead of having all my money in a stash somewhere in my room I gave it to my dad and now it's all caught up in the bank so that's mean that I won't be able to get anything in a time circumstance. Nothing on sale, no specails, nothin, zip, nada, so if you find something on sale please don't post it for I won't be able to get it during the sale.
Anyways, fine then I won't build my full range speakers. I'll be a 6 ft tall sub cabinet
I bet that worries everyone on here but here's my design. If this is denied I promise it'll be the last of my big speaker plans mentioned for a while.
I would use the Mach 5 audio 18" drivers and tune the cabinet to around 17Hz
I know Joe they were bought about 20 some odd years ago and aren't even in the sharp database anymore but I know sharo made them because I found replacement prats for them I'll post the link when I find it. The are rated at 120watts rms/240 Peak I'll find the sensitivity if I can, it's not on the speaker.
Anyways, fine then I won't build my full range speakers. I'll be a 6 ft tall sub cabinet
I bet that worries everyone on here but here's my design. If this is denied I promise it'll be the last of my big speaker plans mentioned for a while.I would use the Mach 5 audio 18" drivers and tune the cabinet to around 17Hz
I know Joe they were bought about 20 some odd years ago and aren't even in the sharp database anymore but I know sharo made them because I found replacement prats for them I'll post the link when I find it. The are rated at 120watts rms/240 Peak I'll find the sensitivity if I can, it's not on the speaker.
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Too bad you can't get your hands on the money right away. Those JBLs would be a great start. Then with the money you saved, build an extra set of subs if you really want to. Your last project was up over $1000, easy - just for parts.
You can design and layout whatever crazy system you want, but I doubt anyone here will help you with it.
If you ever buy the drivers, "maybe" we can help. But not before then. As others have noted, the target keeps moving and we're tired of chasing it. This is no longer a real system -it's just a "wow - wouldn't this be awesome!" game.
You can design and layout whatever crazy system you want, but I doubt anyone here will help you with it.
If you ever buy the drivers, "maybe" we can help. But not before then. As others have noted, the target keeps moving and we're tired of chasing it. This is no longer a real system -it's just a "wow - wouldn't this be awesome!" game.
Sorry about tha guys I know it's a little late into the post now but I've realized what I'm trying to invent a crazy speaker without enough experience. Ok, so you know what? that's it I'm wiping the slate clean.
I'll let you guys make the calls.
here's what I want.
Give me something Hi-Fi that has already been tested and proved with daul woofers at least 8" inches big. I want to gain knowledge and to do that I've relaized I must start small first. Sorry I've been so hard headed about this.
Basically I want a smaller,Hi-Fi version of the Magna Claude.
I would like for it to cost around $300 altogether.
There the moving target's gone. I'm final on this. Here's a sitting duck for you.
Hi-Fi, dual woofers, and around $300.
Something that will help me learn alot and be a good beeginer's project.
I'll let you guys make the calls.
here's what I want.
Give me something Hi-Fi that has already been tested and proved with daul woofers at least 8" inches big. I want to gain knowledge and to do that I've relaized I must start small first. Sorry I've been so hard headed about this.
Basically I want a smaller,Hi-Fi version of the Magna Claude.
I would like for it to cost around $300 altogether.
There the moving target's gone. I'm final on this. Here's a sitting duck for you.
Hi-Fi, dual woofers, and around $300.
Something that will help me learn alot and be a good beeginer's project.
sreten said:
I couldn't get through it! 🙂 I jumped in the middle, which is now maybe the first third, and was curious about the ending. I wasn't, however, curious about how it started...looked like a bad road to go down.
I thought I got it...
Punk - About the outhouse sized sub: Nobody's worried! Not unless they live next to you, anyway. This is a discussion forum, not a zoning board...there's no deny process. People followed along and tried to help with the 18-12 (18-10?) project because there was a chance it could be done, and seemed interesting. If you go with the sub, I'd suggest finding a piano moving forum. Seriously...you'd be smart to have some thought behind the "how to move it" process.
The drivers have been set for a while, now. It sounds like they would work to me. There have been a lot of people telling you that you need to split these things up into multiple boxes. LISTEN for chr*& sake. They're telling you that you're not going to be able to design/build a monolithic speaker, with 2x18's, that doesn't sound like crap. Consider what happens if you split the 18's out into a separate box: The wiring isn't any more complicated, because you were going to do active crossover for the 18's anyway. The combined speaker certainly isn't any less visually impressive, or less heavy. Draw a picture of 2 18's in a box, with some space around it, and put another box with your mid and horn on top. Still big/bad. And to top it off, there's a chance that with help from these guys you can make it sound good. Oh yeah, and you can move it. You're young and strong, but back injuries can last a long, long time.
The whole thing is going to cost a lot, though. Someone estimated 1000+. Buying the JBL's would make much more sense in terms of power and sound vs money. If the DIY factor isn't large, then do it.
Another thing you might do is build a couple of 2x18 subs, or maybe four identical ones. There's no law that says subs have to be mono. I'm not a speaker guy by any means, but I would expect you could set them up to cross to whatever you have now, and be able to use them with a top half of your design, using the mid and tweeter of the complete design.
Build the thing in stages! Sounds like the 18's are the part you want most, and the easiest part to get right. Again, I'm not a speaker guy, but I can't imagine why you'd want or need to port them.
Pay attention to a few of the torpedos. You're losing more ships.
Ok, I think I'm still here. First, a few clarifying questions.
$300 is a tight budget to include 4 woofers and get good sound quality.
First question: Would you be happy with a single, larger woofer? For the same excursion, you get the same surface area as two 8" woofers from a 10" woofer. A 12" woofer has the area of four 8" woofers. Do you really really need to see two woofers per speaker?
What do you think of this project?
http://www.audioxpress.com/reviews/media/203dell2119-1.pdf#search="eminence coaxial kit"
You can't buy the kit anymore, but the article lists all the components. We'd just need to find a tweeter that matches the Adire tweeter.
These would play quite loud, especially once you add a sub.
I'll wait and hear if you can't live without dual woofers before looking for any more projects.
punkrokr1701 said:
$300 is a tight budget to include 4 woofers and get good sound quality.
First question: Would you be happy with a single, larger woofer? For the same excursion, you get the same surface area as two 8" woofers from a 10" woofer. A 12" woofer has the area of four 8" woofers. Do you really really need to see two woofers per speaker?
What do you think of this project?
http://www.audioxpress.com/reviews/media/203dell2119-1.pdf#search="eminence coaxial kit"
You can't buy the kit anymore, but the article lists all the components. We'd just need to find a tweeter that matches the Adire tweeter.
These would play quite loud, especially once you add a sub.
I'll wait and hear if you can't live without dual woofers before looking for any more projects.
con't
as in sensitivity and maximum output?or enclosure size?
As this thread has grown, I haven't seen whether you have posted your amplifier or other equipment...
now, this is getting a little more sensible and realistic. I do have an idea, but want to find out the rest of the story🙂
2 Dayton Classic DC200-8 in parallel, Dayton xover, X02W-2k (or if a 24-2500 hz version is available, a 4 ohm tweeter of you choice. Keep the woofers "stacked, that is a T-W-W setup, as close together as possible w/o touching. No mid, but two woofs in 2.55 ft^3 box, -3db @ 35 Hz ....
not as efficient as you originally suggested , but deeper bass than most of the PA styles already posted.
as in sensitivity and maximum output?or enclosure size?
As this thread has grown, I haven't seen whether you have posted your amplifier or other equipment...
now, this is getting a little more sensible and realistic. I do have an idea, but want to find out the rest of the story🙂
2 Dayton Classic DC200-8 in parallel, Dayton xover, X02W-2k (or if a 24-2500 hz version is available, a 4 ohm tweeter of you choice. Keep the woofers "stacked, that is a T-W-W setup, as close together as possible w/o touching. No mid, but two woofs in 2.55 ft^3 box, -3db @ 35 Hz ....
not as efficient as you originally suggested , but deeper bass than most of the PA styles already posted.
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