haha. no problem moving the speakers, my dad is 51 is he is thought to be 32. Well me? lol, not much to say is there?
250lbs... plus it'll be awesome to see they look and a friends face when I ask him to try and move them. Heavy is good for me.
and I already checked shipping is around $64.
250lbs... plus it'll be awesome to see they look and a friends face when I ask him to try and move them. Heavy is good for me.
and I already checked shipping is around $64.
Attachments
Woofers,
I got a chance to go back and look at the specs for the Selenium WPU 1805. Now I'm not so excited. QMS=15.4?
How will that sound in a normal bass reflex box? That is beyond me.
Do any of the more experienced speaker designers here know?
Cal, Joe, Eva, Andrew, anyone?
If this woofer will work well for us, I would hate for Punkrokr to miss this sale price . But I just don't know how this driver will work in what we want to do. Any ideas?
Punkrokr. Joe is right - you need to break them up. Even if it is only 2 boxes, you really need to break them up. You can always stack them how you want them anyway. But a one piece box that big is just a giant pain.
That horn would probably be good for the project. Selenium also make a similar horn, that was what I was thinking of. Need to find out what Variac is using with his D210s.
I got a chance to go back and look at the specs for the Selenium WPU 1805. Now I'm not so excited. QMS=15.4?
How will that sound in a normal bass reflex box? That is beyond me.
Do any of the more experienced speaker designers here know?
Cal, Joe, Eva, Andrew, anyone?
If this woofer will work well for us, I would hate for Punkrokr to miss this sale price . But I just don't know how this driver will work in what we want to do. Any ideas?
Punkrokr. Joe is right - you need to break them up. Even if it is only 2 boxes, you really need to break them up. You can always stack them how you want them anyway. But a one piece box that big is just a giant pain.
That horn would probably be good for the project. Selenium also make a similar horn, that was what I was thinking of. Need to find out what Variac is using with his D210s.
Post about my horn:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1014056#post1014056
My impression is that diffraction horns don't sound as good as others.
Diffraction horns tend to have a ridge (sharp change in angle) inside. That last one posted by Punkr might have this, but its subtle. The advantage of diffraction horns is that they spread the sound wide from a small horn, but I don't trust them.
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/showthread.php?postid=1014056#post1014056
My impression is that diffraction horns don't sound as good as others.
Diffraction horns tend to have a ridge (sharp change in angle) inside. That last one posted by Punkr might have this, but its subtle. The advantage of diffraction horns is that they spread the sound wide from a small horn, but I don't trust them.
Thanks Variac.
So we should stick with your Dayton H612 horn or the slightly more expensive Selenium HM 25-25 if we decide to stray from the wavegiude use on the Blue Wonder.
Punkrokr, the horn you picked out is probably OK, but why put such a cheap horn on your very nice Selenium D210 driver? The Dayton or the Selenium will sound better. But at a higher price, of course.
Still wondering about those WPU 1805s....
So we should stick with your Dayton H612 horn or the slightly more expensive Selenium HM 25-25 if we decide to stray from the wavegiude use on the Blue Wonder.
Punkrokr, the horn you picked out is probably OK, but why put such a cheap horn on your very nice Selenium D210 driver? The Dayton or the Selenium will sound better. But at a higher price, of course.
Still wondering about those WPU 1805s....
panomaniac said:
Hi,
Nothing wrong with high Qms, arguably (low hysterysis) its very good.
🙂/sreten.
punkrokr1701 said:
Hi,
Seems the penny (cent ?) may drop at some point.
Once you give up on the idea of trying to visually impress people
but want to impress them with the quality of reproduction you
may get somewhere.
This thread has hardly touched upon the fundamentals of hi fidelity
reproduction in the home, doesn't seem its going to anytime soon.
You are building an overgrown pair of PA speakers, not good
for that because they are hardly portable. I've known lots of
people with PA systems, none of them used them for music
at home, for a very good reason ...........
And no I'm not going to suggest some combination of drivers.
If you that is speaker design then there is lots to be learnt.
🙂/sreten.
Hi Variac,
did you forget to read the Parts Express data on the Selenium 210?
It is a 1.7inch tweeter or maybe slighly bigger depending on how Selenium have terminated the edge of the dome into the frame.
The design is twin 18inch to 12inch to horn loaded 1.7inch.
did you forget to read the Parts Express data on the Selenium 210?
it is not a 1inch tweeter.
It is a 1.7inch tweeter or maybe slighly bigger depending on how Selenium have terminated the edge of the dome into the frame.
The design is twin 18inch to 12inch to horn loaded 1.7inch.
Hi Sreten,
Note, Qms is the mechanical damping. 15.4=very springy.
could you explain this a bit more fully. Particularly using high Qts in boxes.
Note, Qms is the mechanical damping. 15.4=very springy.
What is the difference between the 18" 1805 and 1809
1809 is listed at around 140 dollar ..... so with 100 dollar added to the 1805... and ordering the rest from another place and ad yet another 100 dollar...the saving is quickly down the drain
1809 is listed at around 140 dollar ..... so with 100 dollar added to the 1805... and ordering the rest from another place and ad yet another 100 dollar...the saving is quickly down the drain
AndrewT said:
Right. And with an average BL of about 20 - what's that going to sound like?
We can be sure of one thing - Punrokr is not interested in tight, dry bass. He wants big boomy car stereo style bass in his living room.
Point taken. So maybe we shouldn't worry too much about running it down low. Will try to have a listen on my 811 horns tomorrow.
If this really ends up with double 18" it will have plenty of boom, please just dont overdo this boomboom
sreten said:
And I've know lots of audio engineers who would have nothing BUT PA gear at home. I never really liked the sound of it, but - the best home systems I've ever heard were build on the foundation of Altec, JBL, EV, Western Electric and TAD pro drivers. Those systems were designed for maximum SQ, not maximum SPL.
Dude, you are really NOT helping. You keep coming up with statements like that without ever backing them up. Where is your design? Is it too good to share with us? Where is the constructive criticism of our design?
At least Cal, Joe, Eva, Andrew, Tinitus and some others have come up with design ideas and driver suggestions. They were rejected, but at least they were proposed.
Are we forgetting what Punkrokr wants?
He knows what Hi-Fi is, he has heard it and he appreciates the quality. But it's NOT what he wants. Maybe a little visual explanation is in order.
Punkrokr wants to build this:
PUNKROKR'S DREAM MACHINE
Everyone wants him to drive this:
ELEGANT EURO MACHINE
That’s not what he wants!! He knows the Euro Machine is great, but he wants a Monster Truck. Is that so very hard to understand? When I was 14~16 I was building Swamp Buggies out of Model-A frames and Chevy small blocks engines. Elegant? Great handling? Sophisticated? Fast? No. A blast to drive thru the swamps and scare the dogs and neighbors? You bet!
I went on to own British sports cars after that, so it didn’t taint me for life. 😉
The constant moaning from some quarters about how bad this is going to sound and what a terrible design it is - is getting old fast. A number of us here have taken Punkrokr from a pile of junk that he didn’t even know how to wire up, to a pile of pretty good drivers and crossovers that have a fair chance of rocking his world. Punkrokr has been patient, understanding, willing to learn and enthusiastic throughout. He has even pushed his budget up far past where he began.
I just don’t see that as bad.
These are HIS speakers, not ours. This is HIS taste in music and audio, not ours.
AndrewT said:
Hi,
High Qts and high Qms are not the same thing.
Qts is dominated by Qes and reduced somewhat by Qms.
Low Qms = high mechanical damping, this may not be linear.
If Qms is high then Qts is very near Qes, Qts = springiness.
🙂/sreten.
panomaniac said:
Hmmm....... don't shoot the messenger.
I'm just trying to point out the contradictions in this thread.
And HIS misconceptions of what he thinks he wants.
🙂/sreten.
I would rather put it this way..
Punk does not have the experience to know what excactly is needed to get where he wants to be .... question is if we are able to deliver what is needed ... nothing more, nothing less
Some thougts...
Some extra boom, or upper bass if you like, might be ok when you have a bit under rated bass system
My experience is that if you have a bass system with higher efficiency than the rest of the speaker, there is absolutely no need for exstra boomyness
I guess what he wants is exstra power on the drums, and that is I believe not at40-50hz, but rather around 60-100hz
In worst case, Punk wont be able to be in the room when playing loud.... you cant be sure if you will end up with severe ressonance problems triggered by this exstra gain...in electronics its called oscillation, but I cant find the word with acoustics...?
With one 18" a bit unlinear peaky bass might do ok, but with two it could turn into a problem
BTW, what is the present status about crossover
Punk does not have the experience to know what excactly is needed to get where he wants to be .... question is if we are able to deliver what is needed ... nothing more, nothing less
Some thougts...
Some extra boom, or upper bass if you like, might be ok when you have a bit under rated bass system
My experience is that if you have a bass system with higher efficiency than the rest of the speaker, there is absolutely no need for exstra boomyness
I guess what he wants is exstra power on the drums, and that is I believe not at40-50hz, but rather around 60-100hz
In worst case, Punk wont be able to be in the room when playing loud.... you cant be sure if you will end up with severe ressonance problems triggered by this exstra gain...in electronics its called oscillation, but I cant find the word with acoustics...?
With one 18" a bit unlinear peaky bass might do ok, but with two it could turn into a problem
BTW, what is the present status about crossover
Andrew, you are making a semantic argument. Horn drivers are often described by their throat diameter. A 1" throat driver always has a much bigger diaphram. A 2" throat diameter driver has an even greater sized diaphram. Just make sure you are comparing throat sizes or diaphram sizes and don't mix them up. I haven't, you seem to have..
So even with us "mature audiophiles" the important thing is to impress others? just by more "sophisticated" means? 😉
The "size" of the horn driver doesn't really matter to our calcs. Instead we should look at the specs and study its power handling at different frequencies. Like most tweeters, it is often excursion that limits power handling. SO please don't compare the various diameters to determine compatibility- look at the specs... If we cross it lower it can possibly sound more strained, and handle less power.
From discussing this with PA experts and reading the articles I've linked to, I have gotten the impression that the path to success is to have a good midrange handling as much range as possible and crossing at a high frequency to the tweeter horn. I'm sure there are exceptions, but good as this horn driver is for the money, it isn't a high end one.
From discussing this with PA experts and reading the articles I've linked to, I have gotten the impression that the path to success is to have a good midrange handling as much range as possible and crossing at a high frequency to the tweeter horn. I'm sure there are exceptions, but good as this horn driver is for the money, it isn't a high end one.
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