It is a bit rich to quote Toole on this one thing and ignore his life's work, which is linking objective performance (on- and off-axis frequency response) to subjective listener preferences. I would much rather you admit that the A7 has flaws, but it is simple to build and can make you happy on a budget. There are reasons other than how they sound to play with full range drivers--fun, cost, simplicity, and an easy entry into DIY. I have built with several full range drivers, even with many Mark Audio drivers. They are fun to play with, but I'm not going to tell others that they are going to blow out other more neutral-sounding designs.
Nothing special?
I think the massive breakup at 1.5kHz, and the dip at 6.2kHz (cone shape?) are pretty special.
Add the fact that they drop like a brick at 12kHz, and that being on axis?
I thought I remembered seeing that FR response before, I wasn't sure where.
Good to know. Maybe why they are discontinued?
I was trying to be diplomatic. Biting my tongue.
Geddes did significant studies that showed the distortion we measure does not correlat ewell to what we hear.
Now od course there are lots of distortions we do not measure.
dave
Now od course there are lots of distortions we do not measure.
dave
Thanks Dave, I've heard that, was that distortions in the electrical chain as well or just speakers?
Ok, thanks, I thought you might know off hand, save me a bit of time. Do you know if anyone else has looked into it?
Have you a list of the "lots of distortions we do not measure"?
Have you a list of the "lots of distortions we do not measure"?
I've heard it suggested that loudspeaker distortions are less of an issue than those in the electrical chain?
They are different. The higher order harmonics that electronics can generate can be very noticable and annoying even in very small amounts..
dave
dave
Interestingly, Toole & Olive did significant studies showing that good measurements (plural) correlate well with a positive listening experience.
I think you may also miss the point. The frequency response measured above is horrid to say the least. There could be many reasons for that, the driver just being one of them.
Here are the measurements of the KEF LS50 for comparison:
Frequency response vs horizontal angle:
Waterfall:
Contour:
Full data set: 3D3A Lab at Princeton University
Tom
That seems to be one of the things Geddes says, sounds reasonable.
Listening tests with speakers that measure differently would be interesting.
Subjective Blind Testing of Fullrange Drivers by xrk971
Round 1:
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 3in to 5in Full Range Drivers - diyAudio
Round 2:
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 3in to 5in drivers - Round 2
Round 3:
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 2in to 4in drivers - Round 3 - diyAudio
Round 4:
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 2in to 4in drivers - Round 4 - diyAudio
Round 5:
A Subjective Blind Comparison of 2in to 3.5in drivers - Round 5 - diyAudio
Round 6:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...-blind-abx-test-enabled-ff85wk-round-6-a.html
And if you want to hear what different amplifiers sound like on same speakers...
Testing (virtual audition) of Amplifiers:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/solid-simple-quasi-mosfet-amstate/295286-virtual-audition-very-p.html
I just want to point out that regarding post #50, I think the FR is shown in the 1st image. I think a few comments were possibly made in response to the 2nd image which looks to me like a close mic measurement used for measuring HD. Please correct me if I'm wrong; just trying to help. Looks like some good work with the measurements, BTW.
Correct. The THD measurement is a near field measurement.
* mic was placed at 1m to set SPL, then moved close to the cone to allow reliable THD in normal room. Mic used is a lab grade one that handles that loud SPL with mic's own distortion being much lower than the speakers.
* mic was placed at 1m to set SPL, then moved close to the cone to allow reliable THD in normal room. Mic used is a lab grade one that handles that loud SPL with mic's own distortion being much lower than the speakers.
I heard the ls50 wireless yesterday. Not the ideal situation on the shop floor of richer sounds but I was left a little underwelmed.
Care to tell more? What were you expecting? Have you ever been overwhelmed by a 5" two way?
Haha yeah perhaps that is the issue and what you get with a 5". They sounded small even in a small space.
Some hours ago I listen to: Mahler - Symphonie Nr. 2 C-moll "Resurrection" with my loved KEF Q100 5.25" coaxial speakers, tweaked and modded by me.
Trust me, I cross over how such a small speaker is capable of playing an orchestral mass and with that dynamic!
For too long I have wanted to substantially improve my second system (electronics), but I have very clear that these little speakers stay with me.
Trust me, I cross over how such a small speaker is capable of playing an orchestral mass and with that dynamic!
For too long I have wanted to substantially improve my second system (electronics), but I have very clear that these little speakers stay with me.
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