Certainly you can use much more amplifier than needed and be ok as long as you know what you are doing and are careful with your level and content. I've done that myself many times. That's a lot of if's involved though. There could always be some content that comes along like EOT where the level and frequencies are totally unexpected and all it would take was just a bit too much gain. Also there are possible scenarios like a short or bad connection or turn off transient that could also be bad news. What if the kids or wife are using the system and don't know better etc...
I guess I'm coming at it from the perspective of a pro sound provider or a manufacturer. I always like to be able to hand the volume control to anybody with any content and not have to worry about something grenading. Torching is always a possibility but you have to work a bit harder for that and you can prevent that too if you want. Caution and common sense don't always apply!
Okay so I had a quick look at the 12'' version of the same driver and it is attractive for several reasons. For starters, it is more sensitive at 90.3 dB 2.83V/1m as opposed to 87.8 dB 2.83V/1m in the 10''. Secondly it has an extra 2mm Xmax and last it has a slightly lower Fs.
When I simulate these two drivers next to each other in, both in 1.3 ft^3 boxes (as close to 0.707 Qts as possible for both drivers), the 10'' version shows a better bass response as shown in this picture
. YELLOW -12'', PINK- 10''
Apart form the bass response, the 12'' seems much better. It doesn't exceed Xmax with even its rated RMS (the 10'' did very easily), Its max SPL is better across all frequencies and its maximum power is far better all over too.
Can I eq the 12'' to have a flatter response a low frequencies? I have read a little about the Linkwitz transform and it sounds like it will flatten the response at lower frequencies at the cost of power. Is that right?
here is each drivers SPL through the frequency spectrum at 50W input.
When I simulate these two drivers next to each other in, both in 1.3 ft^3 boxes (as close to 0.707 Qts as possible for both drivers), the 10'' version shows a better bass response as shown in this picture
. YELLOW -12'', PINK- 10''Apart form the bass response, the 12'' seems much better. It doesn't exceed Xmax with even its rated RMS (the 10'' did very easily), Its max SPL is better across all frequencies and its maximum power is far better all over too.
Can I eq the 12'' to have a flatter response a low frequencies? I have read a little about the Linkwitz transform and it sounds like it will flatten the response at lower frequencies at the cost of power. Is that right?
here is each drivers SPL through the frequency spectrum at 50W input.
That is a logical conclusion because the 12" has more SD, so it can push more volume with less power.
@ Myleso
Not with the sim i did for you in your other thread ! Maybe you missed it ? Post #4 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/303360-xmax-efficiency-enclosure-confusion.html
The 1.5 ft^3 sim i did is Only 5.66 Litres more than 1.3 ft^3 = not a lot more !
I see you're still using an older version of WinISD, you should update to 07.0.950 🙂
Not with the sim i did for you in your other thread ! Maybe you missed it ? Post #4 http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/subwoofers/303360-xmax-efficiency-enclosure-confusion.html
The 1.5 ft^3 sim i did is Only 5.66 Litres more than 1.3 ft^3 = not a lot more !
I see you're still using an older version of WinISD, you should update to 07.0.950 🙂
Sorry I missed that somehow. The simulations look pretty good to me but going into reflexed boxes is a whole kettle of fish I'm not sure I'm ready for. Is it much more effort? I have no idea how to tune a box. Also I will be using this for music only and I want to avoid 'boomy' sound. Thanks 🙂
Thought you did
Not much more effort at all. WinISD is your friend. If you like i can do another sim & upload the file so you can import it into WinISD & play with it etc.
.
WinISD is your friend again 🙂
Me too, but the sim i did looks fine 😉
That would be awesome thank you. I'm still unsure about this whole vented thing. Ill see what I can figure out by myself on WINisd but I don't really understand how vents work so it would require a lot more research that I'm not all that keen to do. I was going with sealed for simplicity's sake.
@ Myleso
Here's the file as promised. This forum doesn't accept .wpr files, so i've renamed to .txt All you do is right click on it & rename it back to wpr after the . = dot
Don't forget to update WinISD to version 07.0.950
You don't have to go for the vented, but it won't do you any harm to experiment 😉
Here's the file as promised. This forum doesn't accept .wpr files, so i've renamed to .txt All you do is right click on it & rename it back to wpr after the . = dot
Don't forget to update WinISD to version 07.0.950
You don't have to go for the vented, but it won't do you any harm to experiment 😉
Given the relative cheapness and ease of electronic HPFs nowadays, it seems slightly strange to not just get one sorted out. To do so would mean one can just enjoy whatever content one is listening to without one's hand having to rest constantly on the minus button on the volume control when listening to new material.
I agree with Josh's thinking here - I designed mine to pretty much be foolproof, as it only takes one slightly drunken night getting lairy with the remote control on content you are not familiar with to break something expensive.
Anyway, going O/T so apologies. Back to the technical discussion!
Last edited:
Thanks heaps for the file. I'm having some trouble importing it though. Am i meant to save it in a particular place? I had downloaded WINisd PRO, that why it looked different. Just got the newest version of the standard WINisd. Thanks for pointing that out.
@ Myleso
Save it in WinISD->projects. That's all probably in My Documents, unless you've changed the location.
Do NOT forget to right click on it & rename it back to wpr after the . = dot BEFORE you save it in there
Save it in WinISD->projects. That's all probably in My Documents, unless you've changed the location.
Do NOT forget to right click on it & rename it back to wpr after the . = dot BEFORE you save it in there
So I am a little late to the party but I am going through the same process you are right now. I am a noob too so dont worry. I picked the Dayton Reference 10" HO, this subwoofer has been known to do really well in a 0.7 ft^3 vented box tuned to 30 Hz. I have an F-150 and not much room, it has to go under the rear seat of my crew cab. I ordered a flared 2" port which needed to be a total of 13" long and I just cut out the hole in my box this afternoon. The HF series of the dayton usually requires a much more substantial box than the HO but the HO requires a whopping 600 watts RMS at 4 ohms which is substantial for car audio. For an amp I originally ordered a precision power phantom mono class D mono amp that is rated for 580 watts RMS at 4 ohms. This is a well reviewed amp and it was only $140 new. It is currently sitting in my living room right now but I decided to buy the Alpine PDX-V9 since I am also going to be running Zaph audio's car speaker set up with passively crossed over with the prestige speakers and decided against hooking them up to my old two channel pioneer amp. It is tough to find room for two amps and a sub under the seat. So if you are looking for a brand new high powered phantom mono class D amp pm me and we can work out a deal because I don't know what I am going to do with it right now. I also have that second two channel pioneer if you have room for two amps and want to power your front stage. I made some videos of my install so far but I have not put them up on youtube yet.
Sorry, messed up there.....you are kinda right. Infinite baffle....KISS...but then I'm an open baffle fan
Thanks heaps for the offer, sounds awesome but 580W RMS is just too much power. I think im looking at 400 RMS max but I think 300W would be enough for my perposes anyway. Good luck with your build!
@ Myleso
Use the Windows Search for WinISD. Open that folder, then open Projects, then Cut & Paste my file into it. If you havn't already, change the .txt extension to .wpr.
And/or then run WinISD & locate via the arrows, if Projects doesn't show up. Save all your future & existing Projects in Projects. Next time you run WinISD you should see Projects easily.
Use the Windows Search for WinISD. Open that folder, then open Projects, then Cut & Paste my file into it. If you havn't already, change the .txt extension to .wpr.
And/or then run WinISD & locate via the arrows, if Projects doesn't show up. Save all your future & existing Projects in Projects. Next time you run WinISD you should see Projects easily.
Attachments
Hi Mnhockeydude,
Remember to calculate the volume taken up by the port and add that to your box volume.
When talking about all these great high output powers, remember that the juice has to come from somewhere. Like your electrical system. Taking 580 watts as an example, that means that without assuming any losses, your demand on the electrical system will be running at over 48 amperes. I can tell you from experience that you aren't going to get that current, or if you do, your alternator won't put up with that for long, especially when the engine isn't at higher RPM. You should be looking at reaching your minimum frequencies and using as little power as possible! Never mind the excessive heat in the voice coil and magnet assy. I can pretty much assure you that the speaker will not absorb 480 watts of power either, not even close.
-Chris
Remember to calculate the volume taken up by the port and add that to your box volume.
When talking about all these great high output powers, remember that the juice has to come from somewhere. Like your electrical system. Taking 580 watts as an example, that means that without assuming any losses, your demand on the electrical system will be running at over 48 amperes. I can tell you from experience that you aren't going to get that current, or if you do, your alternator won't put up with that for long, especially when the engine isn't at higher RPM. You should be looking at reaching your minimum frequencies and using as little power as possible! Never mind the excessive heat in the voice coil and magnet assy. I can pretty much assure you that the speaker will not absorb 480 watts of power either, not even close.
-Chris
Hi scottjoplin,
So if you like infinite baffle type systems, that is perfectly fine. However the same math that applies to boxed speakers also covers the infinite baffle types. I have designed all types and can tell you that the math always describes the speaker system. You can't fight physics, there isn't any winning that battle!
-Chris
If you want to believe that, that's fine. However you'd be dead wrong. Infinite baffles work great with the right speaker, but it isn't the lack of a box that makes it so efficient, it is the driver. The drivers made for box type systems are generally less efficient due to how they are designed for that box. One box speaker (the horn) is more efficient than an infinite baffle if you really want to argue the point. Oops, lost that argument.
So if you like infinite baffle type systems, that is perfectly fine. However the same math that applies to boxed speakers also covers the infinite baffle types. I have designed all types and can tell you that the math always describes the speaker system. You can't fight physics, there isn't any winning that battle!
-Chris
Thank you. I don't wish to believe something that is wrong. Primarily I'm here to learn and have been fortunate enough to help a couple of people. Thanks for bothering to get back with a reply. I have experience with open baffle and presumed there were similarities.
- Status
- Not open for further replies.