Yep, I'd agree with that. Audiophiles represent possibly 0.1% of the market. No-one gives a rat's *** what audiophiles think.
If you think that LPs (other than the very limited niche production from two or three minor players) aren't just as compressed, or more, you haven't been listening.
I absolutely LOVE my vinyl and all the gear that goes with it. Simpy fascinated by those tiny grooves and the lovely sounds coming off the disc. Besides, shopping LPs is fun, exciting, and soothing. Looking thru the piles of records is like looking thru a nice book or some art of some kind.
Shopping CDs is just sterile and boring, and downloading is so sad and lonely I refuse to do it. I don't have many records, maybe 300 or so, but they are all treasures to me. If the house burns, guess what I'll run to save first?
Many of my LPs don't have great sound at all, but the music on them is so good I'll fight anyone to keep them. My CDs anyone can take away and I wont think much of it. But the LPs I have thta do have great sound, really have great sound. The drums on some old Dire Straits and Pink Floyd records are simply awesome! The CDs I have of the same album, just doesn't have the slam that the LPs do. Dynamics!!!
Right now I'm listening to groovy, slow, and darkish Mazzy Star, and even tho it sounds great, this type of music is kind of compressed in it's nature, so not sure the CD is any worse. But I still only want the LP if given a choice.
I do wonder a bit though, when most modern vinyls are cut off a CDR or same digital master as the CD. Granted, the studio gear may be great quality, but still, if the master is redbook CD, the vinyl copy cannot be great. Still I believe the potential is better even in this case, b/c most vinyl playback gear is better than most CD players.
Some studios do still offer 100% analog recordings, but how do we know for sure? A band called 'Color Haze' which I like, but not everybody likes stoner rock, releases records where they claim all is 100% analog. It sounds great, but I actually don't feel the drums the way I feel them on old Dire Straits or Metallica albums, so are they still being compressed as if made for CD?
Oh, my post is getting as long as this thread, no ones gonna bother reading, oh sheit, well, too many glasses of red wine, too many records too loud, too late...too much rambling on...
So, to conclude, vinyl to me rules b/c it has emotional debth, no other format does to me. So there...
Shopping CDs is just sterile and boring, and downloading is so sad and lonely I refuse to do it. I don't have many records, maybe 300 or so, but they are all treasures to me. If the house burns, guess what I'll run to save first?
Many of my LPs don't have great sound at all, but the music on them is so good I'll fight anyone to keep them. My CDs anyone can take away and I wont think much of it. But the LPs I have thta do have great sound, really have great sound. The drums on some old Dire Straits and Pink Floyd records are simply awesome! The CDs I have of the same album, just doesn't have the slam that the LPs do. Dynamics!!!
Right now I'm listening to groovy, slow, and darkish Mazzy Star, and even tho it sounds great, this type of music is kind of compressed in it's nature, so not sure the CD is any worse. But I still only want the LP if given a choice.
I do wonder a bit though, when most modern vinyls are cut off a CDR or same digital master as the CD. Granted, the studio gear may be great quality, but still, if the master is redbook CD, the vinyl copy cannot be great. Still I believe the potential is better even in this case, b/c most vinyl playback gear is better than most CD players.
Some studios do still offer 100% analog recordings, but how do we know for sure? A band called 'Color Haze' which I like, but not everybody likes stoner rock, releases records where they claim all is 100% analog. It sounds great, but I actually don't feel the drums the way I feel them on old Dire Straits or Metallica albums, so are they still being compressed as if made for CD?
Oh, my post is getting as long as this thread, no ones gonna bother reading, oh sheit, well, too many glasses of red wine, too many records too loud, too late...too much rambling on...
So, to conclude, vinyl to me rules b/c it has emotional debth, no other format does to me. So there...
I like the sound of Vinyl, and as of today it still has the edge on digital, but this certainly may not be the case much longer. Years ago, I dubbed my LPs and D2Ds on cassettes (a few onto R2R for better and extended play) in order that during ordinary listening I wouldn't have to deal with record wear. As it is, many of my LPs (but certainly not all) have only been played one or two times. I look forward to dubbing them onto a digital format of 24/192 minimum, using a HD and some sort of permanent media as a safe back-up. This would replace my 30+ year old cassettes and allow me to pass the nearly pristine LPs on to my children.
I fully expect that digital will surpass analog LPs very soon, but it hasn't happened yet. However I can wait comfortably, secure in the belief that the time is near. Of course, much of my favorite music is unlikely to be ever released in digital form, so I must undertake the task myself.
Best Regards,
TerryO
I fully expect that digital will surpass analog LPs very soon, but it hasn't happened yet. However I can wait comfortably, secure in the belief that the time is near. Of course, much of my favorite music is unlikely to be ever released in digital form, so I must undertake the task myself.
Best Regards,
TerryO
Semperfi,you're a 100% right!And not only right in what you say,but in what you listen to! Dire Straits (Communique was the good one if you ask me!)
and Pink Floyd AND Mazzy Star of all groups!If the wine is right you should be in heaven by now.Stay there as long as you can!And please, have one for me!
and Pink Floyd AND Mazzy Star of all groups!If the wine is right you should be in heaven by now.Stay there as long as you can!And please, have one for me!
According to recording/mastering engineer Barry Diament, digital is now better than analog. At least with a Metric Halo 24/192 box. To quote Barry
"It no longer feels like a great digital recorder or a great analog recorder. It feels like the recorder has been effectively removed from the equation and I am listening directly to the mic feed."
To me, this means better than vinyl records too.
Michael Fremer, of all people, wrote this in his review of Pure Vinyl software.
"...you might find the resulting sound superior to what you hear from playing the LPs directly. Can that be me talking? Yes, based on what I heard."
So we are very close and some companies may have crossed that line already. You are right though. I wonder how much old material like classic rock will be remastered? Probably mostly by audiophile labels by people like Kevin Gray and Steve Hoffman. How much can a handful of guys do at once? Will the record companies even let them do the remasters?
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Remastering analog and making comparison to the original is problematic. Tape deteriorates with time, severely. And it's rare for any two releases to be mastered from the same tape. Or be mastered the same way.
The very best analog recordings I own are excellent. The very best digital recordings I own are better. No tracing distortion, no S/N limitation from the cartridge Johnson noise, no lumpy vinyl (it is NOT homogeneous!), no nonlinear compliances (vinyl yet again!), no bass limiting, no pre-echo, no flutter and wow (even with perfect turntables), no head bumps, no HF compression, no mistracking, far superior separation...
The very best analog recordings I own are excellent. The very best digital recordings I own are better. No tracing distortion, no S/N limitation from the cartridge Johnson noise, no lumpy vinyl (it is NOT homogeneous!), no nonlinear compliances (vinyl yet again!), no bass limiting, no pre-echo, no flutter and wow (even with perfect turntables), no head bumps, no HF compression, no mistracking, far superior separation...
That's a little different idea of what makes cd better than I have of what makes cd poorer. I'm damned if I can hear any of the things you've mentioned on the reference I use other than occasional mistracking which is easily corrected.
John
Sy
I hope that you did some properly set up DBTs ?
Seriously though, I think there may be too much navel gazing involved with the subject, and a desire to return to times when things were so much simpler.
IF people spent as much on decent digital equipment as they did on their beloved turntables and cartridges, then they just may realise that what Sy is saying is absolutely spot on !
A much more contentious issue is the further improvement possible over CD
via the PC route, or standalone media player,instead of a flimsy piece of polycarbonate rotating at a huge rate of knots. I believe the future lies with digital files played directlly from a memory card, or similar non moving storage medium. Rapidly increasing memory size will enable storage of higher bit rate and depth .wav files also.
Let's hope that the record companies don't miss a golden opportunity.
SandyK
How much is considered decent , a good friend spent 40K+ on his digital ( dcs) and 8K-12K on his analog ( years ago ) guess which one sounds better ...
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How much is considered decent , a good friend spent 40K+ on his digital ( dcs) and 8K-12K on his analog ( years ago ) guess which one sounds better ...
Some people prefer valve amplifiers with specifications far worse in almost every parameter to a very good solid state amplifier.
It comes down mainly to personal taste, or in some cases thinking that VERY expensive necessarily sounds better. I prefer to hear my music the way the artist and producer intended it to be heard, not with added mechanical warmth and colouration, or a stylus causing degradation to a vinyl record every time that it is played, with a gradual reduction of HF response.
I do miss the nice larger artwork though.
SandyK
And the rest of us don't.....
SandyK do you listen to the music or the rhetoric of techno garb ..... 🙂
Yes the turntable does all of that and yes the CD have it's warts 2 ... truth be told you will hear the difference if you listen regardless of the nail dragging turntable deficiencies...
Regards,
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Just because you can hear and like the distortions associated with vinyl doesnt mean its better.
And lets not forget the distortions introduced by running your music thru a ( probably 30 year old ) lathe cutting head and industrial power amp, and the degeneration of the multiple stages of stamping, and inconsistant vinyl formulas, and bad mastering (the guy who runs the lathe) and thats before it gets to your worn stylus. Buy 3 brand new records of the same album from 3 different sources and they will all sound slightly different.
"Some people prefer valve amplifiers with specifications far worse in almost every parameter to a very good solid state amplifier"
Thats why I only buy cheap 70's and 80's japanese receivers.They already achieved the best specs 40 years ago.Why would I waste time with tubes??
Also I like my CD players sounding "digital" don't need no stinking, "analog like" sound all those croocked fat reviewers are garbling about and public buys into this along with "tube like" soundig SS amps ** :0)
Thats why I only buy cheap 70's and 80's japanese receivers.They already achieved the best specs 40 years ago.Why would I waste time with tubes??
Also I like my CD players sounding "digital" don't need no stinking, "analog like" sound all those croocked fat reviewers are garbling about and public buys into this along with "tube like" soundig SS amps ** :0)
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Alright, Alright.... My distortion sounds better than your distortion ....
Especially after all those glasses of "beverage" ?😀
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