Hotrodding the UCD modules

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maxlorenz said:
For example, I don't like Panasonic FC in DAC's so I won't use them here (and I'm waiting for other mates that find a better solution :angel: 😀 ).
In contrast, I'm using OCC copper wire for hook up signal and I'm quite happy with it 🙂

[/B]

Using SANYO OSCON for digital supplies and Panasonic FC for analog in a DAC usually yields good results.

IMO silver coated copper with teflon insulation is best for hookup connections in DIY simply because it sounds great and the insulation does not melt.
 
maxlorenz said:
Hi Mike:


That's OK, man. Nobody will blame you 😉
It happens to me with Tannoy.

I've heard an old JBL (don't remember the model). Impressive with 6W SE tube amp, but I did not like the lack of integration between horn and woofer (of that one). Kind of different sound presentation.
Yours must be way better :angel:


The 4435's don't suffer from a poor integration. In fact, they were targeting Tanoy and did a far amount of bad mouthing w/o saying in regards to the constant power response.

My 4343's don't have constant power, but are flat in a cone of sound, more like the Tannoys I suspect. They are pretty seemless imo. The cool thing is, being a four way, none of the drivers are being used close to the extreems of there response. They are very detailed, but what I notice more than anything, is that they are pretty position sensisitve. If your sitting 15 feet away, you tweak the levels of each driver for balance. If you go back 30 feet, then the highs are down and the balance is off. The constant directivity design doesn't have this issue at all. I like them both for differnt reasons, both are livable. Moreso since my in my new house I can't get far away 🙂



Ahemm...😀 Maybe it's my time of paying back your efforts.

Volume control step down Transformers have multiple secondaries each with a different volume attenuation:
*They are not so sensitive to interconnect lenght.
*they can be configured to be totally balanced or totally unbalanced or change from one format to the other.
*compared to R attenuators they convert V to I with minimum heat (energy) loss so the lower the seting the better the bass sounds, IMHO, retaining good performance at low volumes.
*mine are Sevens&Billingtons with OCC copper windings, from Bentaudio.com where you can have more info.
http://www.bentaudio.com/index2.html
*You can DC couple the UCD's for more transparency. My UCD400 are DC coupled and I read 14mV offset. Do you find it high? 🙁

Unfortunatelly, they are not cheap (I bought mine before price increased 😉 ) . USD 550 plus selectors, connectors, wire and case. :bawling:
Now they have many reviews if you like to read them. I don't have the guts to read the last 6moons review.
http://www.6moons.com/audioreviews/musicfirst/passive.html
Once heard the transparency of TVC I can go back to actives.
Very interesting. How many steps do you get?
I like that you can configure them any way you like. My SACD 777 is a classic Japanese design. The 8 D/A's put out a balanced stream. They convert to single ended. On the SACD 1, it then converts back to balanced. I digress, but I've always though it would be good to nab that signal before it goes through the bucket of op amps that implement the filter and perhaps even transformer couple directly to the balanced DAC.

[/QUOTE]
Sorry Kephaudio 🙁
Yes you will need a "soft start" for that big TX (and fuse(s) of course). I believe more than 250VA deserves one.

To save big money I use a simple 2 step power-on with a resistor (220R-20W) in parallel with the power cable: I power-on the R path, count to 8, ten power-on the real power path and power-down R path. Never fails (safe if children or spouse powers-on 😀 ).
I guess is 3 step, because then I power-on the amp module.
I'll keep them in mind for my next windfall 🙂

Cheers
Mauricio
[/QUOTE]
I have 440VA monoblocks. I don't have a soft start and its fine, but the lights do dim 🙂
One thought is to forgo the power switch and use the power cord. Use a switch to turn on the UcD board. I think that's how CIaudio does it too.

I only fused on the line side of the transformer. Maybe I'm playing with fire 🙂 but i've experienced the audibility of fuses before in the rails.

What is the biggest concern with inrush. Damaging the bridge or caps?

Best Regards,

Mike
 
Dear Lucpes:
Using SANYO OSCON for digital supplies
Agree 🙂

IMO silver coated copper with teflon insulation is best for hookup connections in DIY simply because it sounds great and the insulation does not melt.

Why would it melt on signal path?
Have you "heard" OCC copper?

Dear Mike:
I'm happy that you're happy with the JBL and new house 🙂

Very interesting. How many steps do you get?

22 steps of -2dB, I think, from 0 attenuation to -52dB . I ussually use from -16dB to
-40dB depending on source or program material.


I like that you can configure them any way you like. My SACD 777 is a classic Japanese design. The 8 D/A's put out a balanced stream. They convert to single ended.

What they would do that for? Fewer steps=better sound.
Maybe you can avoid single ended and continue (build?) with balanced outs. If they can output a couple of volts RMS it's good for TVC.
My M-audio superDAC has balanced DC coupled outs with high Vout (don't know how many V) and it compliments very well with the TVC, because of higher current when signal is transformed, I guess.



What is the biggest concern with inrush. Damaging the bridge or caps?
The fuses! :clown: 😀

Well, it is said that caps may last longer and "warm up" (vg: better sound) faster with soft start.
That said, I maintain the PS ON most of the time.

I only fused on the line side of the transformer. Maybe I'm playing with fire but i've experienced the audibility of fuses before in the rails.
I do the same 😉

Sorry again guys, off-topic :angel:
Have a nice musical day.
M
 
Portlandmike said:
When I talk about "lack of bass" it isn't the speakers, its a relitive thing, and one I'd guess you'd even hear on a 6 inch two way if you were use to it.

My only system hooked up right now is:
Sony SACD 777
Gold Point passive stepped attenuator.
UcD400AD
JBL4435.

Chris,

A couple of questions for you.

What toriod did you use in your UcD400 that you posted pics on lately?

Have you heard anything bad about the Avel Y23 series?

Did you use OCC for your UcD400 too?

How do the UcD180 sound in comparison, pretty much the same?

Thanks

Mike

Hi,

Those were 180's I don't have 400's.

I haven't looked into Avel, I got Plitron because their location suits me and seems to be a good name, even though the pricing of their options makes little sense to me. Standard grade Plitron nothing fancy, 500VA 31Vac secondaries, added options mu-metal shield and static shield, already featured potted core, works very good, zero hum/noise what so ever.

Biggest concern with inrush is blowing the fuse or tripping the breaker, the annoyance factor. Even what I'll call underrated rectifiers have a rather high surge capability and should handle inrush OK, though with years of repetitive use may shorten the life expectancy, same with caps really, it'll handle it, but it's a pretty good kick. Odds are better that they'll live a longer and happier life if you use soft start, and then you wont' trip breakers or blow fuses.
 
Hi,

Going to have to stick my foot in my mouth again.

Some of you may have noticed the wire leads I have comming off the speaker terminals of the module. Originally I thought I'd try Cardas Litz as hook up wire, 12.5AWG.

I found it all too much of a total pain to work with and gave up on it. I however left two 1' leads in place with alligator clips soldered to them so that I could quickly swap my layout around, to be removed later on.

The layout was nailed down awhile ago but out of lazyness and neglect I left those leads on.

So when I tried a CAT5 braided 3' cable Vs my 15' 10AWG monster cable, they were both tunneled through those 1 foot Litz wire lead + alligator clips, which was enough to make them sound identical!

I junked those yesterday, soldered the fast-on's right to the 10AWG monster cable and plugged them directly into the modules.

I didnt' think it would do that much given the reasonable length of Litz and still being a rather hefty gauge for a short run.

I can say the extreme holographic airyness I had before changing caps to the FC's is back in full force, and am also hearing full benefit of my new caps. Everything across the range has improved substantially with even more grunt in the lows, nice level midrange, a controlled extension on the highs and microdetail to the likes of which I haven't yet heard with it. I'm wrapped up in the holographic sound from it again and loving it, with all the bass anyone can want.

Can still hear the coloration of the FC's, but it's easy to live with.

Last night was the first night in over 8 years where I slept with my amp playing all night, best sleep ever.

That's what two little 1' wires are good for :xeye:

So given that, I can no longer say there's anything thin sounding about the amp either. It has a deep, rich and black soundstage, where the sound comes from all around you, yet with the FC's placing more emphasis on the lows than highs it remains extremely relaxing, and with those wires gone, nothing is being left out. I could stop here with it now and be perfectly satisfied with it.

Kind of kicking around the idea of using 10 000uF per rail BHC T-networks on a 50VA 12Vac secondary aux supply for the input stage though, because I can.
 
classd4sure said:
Hi,

Going to have to stick my foot in my mouth again.

Some of you may have noticed the wire leads I have comming off the speaker terminals of the module. Originally I thought I'd try Cardas Litz as hook up wire, 12.5AWG.

I found it all too much of a total pain to work with and gave up on it. I however left two 1' leads in place with alligator clips soldered to them so that I could quickly swap my layout around, to be removed later on.

The layout was nailed down awhile ago but out of lazyness and neglect I left those leads on.

So when I tried a CAT5 braided 3' cable Vs my 15' 10AWG monster cable, they were both tunneled through those 1 foot Litz wire lead + alligator clips, which was enough to make them sound identical!

I junked those yesterday, soldered the fast-on's right to the 10AWG monster cable and plugged them directly into the modules.

I didnt' think it would do that much given the reasonable length of Litz and still being a rather hefty gauge for a short run.

I can say the extreme holographic airyness I had before changing caps to the FC's is back in full force, and am also hearing full benefit of my new caps. Everything across the range has improved substantially with even more grunt in the lows, nice level midrange, a controlled extension on the highs and microdetail to the likes of which I haven't yet heard with it. I'm wrapped up in the holographic sound from it again and loving it, with all the bass anyone can want.

Can still hear the coloration of the FC's, but it's easy to live with.

Last night was the first night in over 8 years where I slept with my amp playing all night, best sleep ever.

That's what two little 1' wires are good for :xeye:

So given that, I can no longer say there's anything thin sounding about the amp either. It has a deep, rich and black soundstage, where the sound comes from all around you, yet with the FC's placing more emphasis on the lows than highs it remains extremely relaxing, and with those wires gone, nothing is being left out. I could stop here with it now and be perfectly satisfied with it.

Kind of kicking around the idea of using 10 000uF per rail BHC T-networks on a 50VA 12Vac secondary aux supply for the input stage though, because I can.


That's great news for you Chris.

So are you changing your mind on hearing wires, or do you think it was the alligator clips?


YOu should try the cat 5 again sometime?

Look forward to more progress reports too.

I've got my eye on the jensen 4 poles.

Mike
 
Portlandmike said:



That's great news for you Chris.

So are you changing your mind on hearing wires, or do you think it was the alligator clips?

Do you attribuite it to the braded Cat 5 or the lack of the 1ft Litz?

YOu should try your 10ga monster again.

Look forward to more progress reports too.

Mike


That's the funny part (isn't it?).


It nulls the results of my previous cable test and yes I'll have to repeat it omitting the litz and alligator clips to know.

Shame that I gave that cable away (CAT5), I guess for now all I can do is enjoy.

It is the 10AWG monster cable I'm using now. Bit of stress on the old terminals.
 
Good to hear, Chris 🙂

As I said elsewhere, everything on signal or power paths counts! Do we have good gold plated copper faston's? 😕
That's why I DIM my capacitor connector with copper plate 😉

About UCD coupling caps:

I want to change the stock caps on UCD180 for BG-N in super E-cap configuration. Everytime I ask people who have the instruments to measure the claimed advantages of it they denie its benefits beforehand 😡

The other day I swaped the output AC coupling caps (BG-NX 47uF/6.3V) of my DIY nonos DAC (fed directly from CDPRO through I2S) for the same cap in super E-cap configuration, that is, antiparallel pairs for each channel. The change in sound was big. It lost some of the nonos warmth but the expansion of soundstage, extension of extremes frequencies, clarity and inner detail was nothing that I could associate previously with nonos DAC's. The bad part is that I got again some minor HF noise on my UCD400's mono. I can't say if it's the amps or the protoboard made DAC (or the caps). I will attempt my first DIY PCB for the DAC.

Anyone would like to try or measure superE caps? :angel:

I wish I had a scope, but also I wish I had SKA, My_Ref, Fostex FE206e...etc 😀
Once we start, there's no way back :bawling:

Good luck.
Mauricio
 
maxlorenz said:
Good to hear, Chris 🙂

As I said elsewhere, everything on signal or power paths counts! Do we have good gold plated copper faston's? 😕
That's why I DIM my capacitor connector with copper plate 😉



I want to change the stock caps on UCD180 for BG-N in super E-cap configuration. Everytime I ask people who have the instruments to measure the claimed advantages of it they denie its benefits beforehand 😡

Anyone would like to try or measure superE caps? :angel:

I wish I had a scope, but also I wish I had SKA, My_Ref, Fostex FE206e...etc 😀
Once we start, there's no way back :bawling:

Good luck.
Mauricio


Mauricio,

I searched SuperE Caps, and found nothing. Can you explain what you mean?

Thanks

Mike
 
A grounding quesion.

Chris,

I have yet to cut the single wire that connects my power ground to the chassis. I did connect signal ground to the RCA input ground along with -IN.

My reasoning was, nothing is really connected to it, and sure seems like it should be tied to something.

Then I thought about the heat sink, maybe being connected.

I guess from what you've said before you'd float the chassis, is that correct?

Mike

p.s. Now you've got me thinking about all those spring loaded speaker connectors in my JBL's.
 
New output filter cap concept

I've been bouncing around an idea for the output filter cap.

I suspect that as the cap gets voltage impressed on it, it tightens up.
The problem is that at low signal levels, its not tight as its only the winding tension and no electrostatic forces, which will be quite high.

What if

You replaced the single output filter cap with two twice as big, and put them in series (or four 680nF for in series prallel.)
At the series node, bias them with a large resistor to one of the supply rails.

That would impress lots of volts on them, and at 1 Meg, it would have little affect on the output (although you could filter this if you were concerned.

I'd be you'd hear the difference. The JBL K2's do something like this in the passive crossover, and its been found to give positive results.

Might make otherwise sloppy vague caps better, and good caps better yet!

Voltage rating would need to be at least 50% greater though, as 1/2 Vout will be impressed on top of the bais voltage.

Let me know what you think?

Wish I had some output filter caps to play with.

Mike
 
Dear all:
Yesterday I found the time to swap the normal PS (znuberrized )recifier diode bridge, for my Ixis, 68A, slow recovery bridge we talked about previously, on my UCD400 mono's:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/semiconductors.html

I strongly recommend these bridges 🙂
Maybe you're familiar with the experience of hearing everything like 3db more louder after a mod? Well that's what I heard and I didn't expect it. Also a significant increase in bass punch and quality, more "analog" I would say. 😎
The presentation is more relaxed. My HF problem now feels as a "dirth" on top.
I listened to Brukner's 4th symphony, "romantic", and the previous thought about Brukner's music being punchy on midrange and highs but lacking bass was totally wrong from my part. It is good to hear those double-basses rrrrumbling 😀
Also, the diodes allowed for a more relaxed (yet very dynamic) listening to this stressing music 😉

I used the horrid faston to connect them. Chris, did you solder it?

Dear Mike:
SuperE-cap is a pair of non polar BG's in "anti-parallel" configuration. The caps have a long lead an a shorter one plus N.P.N on one side only. One of those sides is the beginning of the foil, as I understood. By connecting in anti-parallel manner the foil "spin sense" is opposite. They claim that this way ESL is canceled and ESR lowers at UHF :bigeyes: :bigeyes:

http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/blackgate/techEcap.htm
http://www.blackgate.jp/ebg6.htm

I don't know if they do everything they claim but to my ears they sure do something!
I've tried on low V power supplies as decoupling with variable success, probably due to my inexperience. 🙁

If someday I understand what the filter cap does, I could dare to change it 😀

Cheers everybody!
Mauricio
 
I'm thinking about taking the 680nf Auricap out of the filter for my UCD180 and fitting something like a Evox MMK until I can source some other films to try.
The Auricap is ok but its made the sound really polite and smooth, they have been in now over two weeks, infact it makes my tube amp sound agressive😀

I should have the collection of decoupling caps to try soon, for the time being I'm going back to my AD815 pre and AvondaleNCC200🙂
 
maxlorenz said:
Dear all:
Yesterday I found the time to swap the normal PS (znuberrized )recifier diode bridge, for my Ixis, 68A, slow recovery bridge we talked about previously, on my UCD400 mono's:

http://www.partsconnexion.com/catalog/semiconductors.html

I strongly recommend these bridges 🙂
Maybe you're familiar with the experience of hearing everything like 3db more louder after a mod? Well that's what I heard and I didn't expect it. Also a significant increase in bass punch and quality, more "analog" I would say. 😎
The presentation is more relaxed. My HF problem now feels as a "dirth" on top.
I listened to Brukner's 4th symphony, "romantic", and the previous thought about Brukner's music being punchy on midrange and highs but lacking bass was totally wrong from my part. It is good to hear those double-basses rrrrumbling 😀
Also, the diodes allowed for a more relaxed (yet very dynamic) listening to this stressing music 😉

I used the horrid faston to connect them. Chris, did you solder it?

Dear Mike:
SuperE-cap is a pair of non polar BG's in "anti-parallel" configuration. The caps have a long lead an a shorter one plus N.P.N on one side only. One of those sides is the beginning of the foil, as I understood. By connecting in anti-parallel manner the foil "spin sense" is opposite. They claim that this way ESL is canceled and ESR lowers at UHF :bigeyes: :bigeyes:

http://www.acoustic-dimension.com/blackgate/techEcap.htm
http://www.blackgate.jp/ebg6.htm

I don't know if they do everything they claim but to my ears they sure do something!
I've tried on low V power supplies as decoupling with variable success, probably due to my inexperience. 🙁

If someday I understand what the filter cap does, I could dare to change it 😀

Cheers everybody!
Mauricio


Hi Mauricio,

I've only tried super E-caps in the outputstage for my dac so can't really comment how they would sound in the UCD, I personally preferred the single Blackgate N compared to the Super E's, try them out though and see what you think🙂
 
Hi t. 🙂

I forgot to mention that by installing the Ixis soft recovery diodes my PS went up to a dangerous +/- 61.6VDC 😱

About AC coupling caps on UCD180: I want them to be neutral, the more alike to no-cap at all. I can "voice" the system at the front end better 😀

In general, I prefear open and transparent sound over warm and inviting but coloured, on the long run.

Regards
M.
 
maxlorenz said:
Hi t. 🙂

I forgot to mention that by installing the Ixis soft recovery diodes my PS went up to a dangerous +/- 61.6VDC 😱

About AC coupling caps on UCD180: I want them to be neutral, the more alike to no-cap at all. I can "voice" the system at the front end better 😀

In general, I prefear open and transparent sound over warm and inviting but coloured, on the long run.

Regards
M.

Hmm, you may want to give the BG's a miss then mate if your looking for neutral😉 depending on your source the BG's are nice caps and some people love them but I found them far from neutral to be honest but please don't let me put you off, you may like them.


That voltage looks a bit too scary for the UCD180, I only have +/-44v DC from my pair of 30v AC transformers.

I'm trying to think what else I can try with my UCD's, unfortunately at the the minute the sound isn't really doing it for me🙁
 
Dear t.
Hmm, you may want to give the BG's a miss then mate if your looking for neutral depending on your source the BG's are nice caps and some people love them but I found them far from neutral to be honest but please don't let me put you off, you may like them.

Don't worry, I will experiment with other options if I can. I am readily impressionable but can make a critical evaluation at the end 😎

That voltage looks a bit too scary for the UCD180, I only have +/-44v DC from my pair of 30v AC transformers.

Sorry :angel: I thought it was clear that I talked about UCD400,

I'm trying to think what else I can try with my UCD's, unfortunately at the the minute the sound isn't really doing it for me

It's a pitty 🙁
Why?
I will soon try "technical balanced power" on my system. I hope some noise will go away to end with a better musical experience.

Regards
M.
 
maxlorenz said:
Dear t.


Don't worry, I will experiment with other options if I can. I am readily impressionable but can make a critical evaluation at the end 😎



Sorry :angel: I thought it was clear that I talked about UCD400,



It's a pitty 🙁
Why?
I will soon try "technical balanced power" on my system. I hope some noise will go away to end with a better musical experience.

Regards
M.


M,

I feel bad for you and the noise.

I can't help but wonder if your getting aliasing of high frequency hash from your Dac. This may be stupid, but I've read a few of your comments on this and thought I'd give you some free advice.

First off, if its on ground, your kind of in trouble, but lets hope its not that. Have you tried just doing a serious low pass RC. Something like 100ohms and some big cap to put a pole at 20kHz.
It likely will sound like rolled off crap, but if the hf hash goes away...... its a clue. Then we can hone in on a real solution.

Regards,

Mike
 
maxlorenz said:
Dear t.


Don't worry, I will experiment with other options if I can. I am readily impressionable but can make a critical evaluation at the end 😎



Sorry :angel: I thought it was clear that I talked about UCD400,



It's a pitty 🙁
Why?
I will soon try "technical balanced power" on my system. I hope some noise will go away to end with a better musical experience.

Regards
M.

Hi Mauricio,

Good luck with the coupling caps, its good that your going to be trying out some different types too

I realize you use the UCD400, ignore my rambling😀

It sounds crazy but since fitting the AD8620 I've never enjoyed the sound as much as I did, yes the AD8620 is better than the standard NE5532 in a lot of ways but since fitting this chip its added a sort of colouration,signature which I'm finding hard to get used too so its something I'm going to work on.
 
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