That suits me perfectly fine.
Edit: (since I can't email you)
I'll add though, that when personal attacks which have been reported go ignored by moderators... the ensuing outfall will no doubt be of a more personal nature as well. It's all off my chest now though, I feel good 🙂
Edit: (since I can't email you)
I'll add though, that when personal attacks which have been reported go ignored by moderators... the ensuing outfall will no doubt be of a more personal nature as well. It's all off my chest now though, I feel good 🙂
Hi Chris,
I am already regretting wading into this argument from the perspective of it detracting from what I am really here for. I will not be further indulging!
Turning to the actual subject at hand:
The bolts. Well I am a hobbiest. This idea I have seen mooted for at least 15 years. My research? I have tried it years before I even heard of Ric and I consider I hear an improvement. I would love to know why but I have tried it sufficient times to be sure I am not fooling myself. My trials include changing the mounting in one monoblock amp and comparing the two amps channel to channel. Good enough for me.
Re my methodology, I consider myself reasonably technically adept and make an effort to educate myself. So I try to get the basics right first. However unless I can see no grounds for a tweak at all the chances are I will try it. I consider this to be open minded! But there are many such things I have tried and only some I have liked. So I listen to most people but believe only myself. Some of the things I now do as a matter of course when building or modifying might make you raise your eyebrows. I might discuss these on here if it is not too provocative.
Regards,
Rob.
I am already regretting wading into this argument from the perspective of it detracting from what I am really here for. I will not be further indulging!
Turning to the actual subject at hand:
The bolts. Well I am a hobbiest. This idea I have seen mooted for at least 15 years. My research? I have tried it years before I even heard of Ric and I consider I hear an improvement. I would love to know why but I have tried it sufficient times to be sure I am not fooling myself. My trials include changing the mounting in one monoblock amp and comparing the two amps channel to channel. Good enough for me.
Re my methodology, I consider myself reasonably technically adept and make an effort to educate myself. So I try to get the basics right first. However unless I can see no grounds for a tweak at all the chances are I will try it. I consider this to be open minded! But there are many such things I have tried and only some I have liked. So I listen to most people but believe only myself. Some of the things I now do as a matter of course when building or modifying might make you raise your eyebrows. I might discuss these on here if it is not too provocative.
Regards,
Rob.
I appreciate any tips,tweaks or what ever if they are reported to improve the sound.
I'll try anything once, just as long as its safe🙂 I will admit to trying some crazy stuff in the past, some made a difference and others made no difference at all😀
I'll try anything once, just as long as its safe🙂 I will admit to trying some crazy stuff in the past, some made a difference and others made no difference at all😀
I regard it as a closed issue.
Regarding the ferrous bolt thing, I'm willing to test that myself with an open mind. I suppose just inserting a screwdriver into the bolt hole would be sufficient to know. I'll let you know what happened when I do try it.
The aluminum mounting plate thing.... just seems silly when it's still sitting on an aluminum chassis. If you're going to go with the belief that it's truly an issue than you gotta go the whole nine.
Regarding the ferrous bolt thing, I'm willing to test that myself with an open mind. I suppose just inserting a screwdriver into the bolt hole would be sufficient to know. I'll let you know what happened when I do try it.
The aluminum mounting plate thing.... just seems silly when it's still sitting on an aluminum chassis. If you're going to go with the belief that it's truly an issue than you gotta go the whole nine.
its an internet forum people, an internet forum. and its about audio, not anything important.
Hi Rob,
Given your previous posts (containing sound technical advice) I'd be interested in hearing what you think makes a difference, and I'm sure we'll be able to discuss it in a mature fashion.
At least I can respect that you appreciate the basics as well, and aren't prone to disregard its importance in place of some marketing gimmickery.
Having a solide foundation from which to work, I'm better able to appreciate your experience, and more apt to keep an open mind about it since you're not sharing from a strickly marketing perspective.
Certain things I'm able to dismiss outright though. The wires passed through the amp is one of them. Even if it did make a world of difference, at least use a ring terminal crimped and soldered, with a nut to fasten it securely, in a nice, solide, oxygen free way. It only makes sense. Personally, I'd much prefer to keep the wires internal, safely away from any possible source of damage.
Given your previous posts (containing sound technical advice) I'd be interested in hearing what you think makes a difference, and I'm sure we'll be able to discuss it in a mature fashion.
At least I can respect that you appreciate the basics as well, and aren't prone to disregard its importance in place of some marketing gimmickery.
Having a solide foundation from which to work, I'm better able to appreciate your experience, and more apt to keep an open mind about it since you're not sharing from a strickly marketing perspective.
Certain things I'm able to dismiss outright though. The wires passed through the amp is one of them. Even if it did make a world of difference, at least use a ring terminal crimped and soldered, with a nut to fasten it securely, in a nice, solide, oxygen free way. It only makes sense. Personally, I'd much prefer to keep the wires internal, safely away from any possible source of damage.
classd4sure said:
I used a speaker switch some years ago, good solid jobby with sprung contacts. Significant sonic degradation. Ever since, for my own system, I have, wherever possible, run a cable directly from amplifier output to drive unit connectors.
Don't like binding posts, but if I buld for others I always use 'em. Dangly wires would appear to give the worst of both worlds
Regards,
Keith
Well, here you have my verdict on the matter:
Not only did I try a ferrous material, placed in the bolt hole of my transformer, in full contact with the metal chassis below, but a magnetized one as well.
Was it audible? Not in the least bit.
I then got bold, and stuck an actual magnet to side of it, moved it all around, was that audible? Not in the least bit.
I even placed the magnet on my speaker wires.. audible? nah. Sorry.
Not only did I try a ferrous material, placed in the bolt hole of my transformer, in full contact with the metal chassis below, but a magnetized one as well.
Was it audible? Not in the least bit.
I then got bold, and stuck an actual magnet to side of it, moved it all around, was that audible? Not in the least bit.
I even placed the magnet on my speaker wires.. audible? nah. Sorry.
Good to know. Thanks for the experiment. I will use the stock bolts and holders with confidence now.
Noooo don't take my word for it! Try it yourself, let us know what your findings are, but, don't form a completed turn with your screwdriver or whatever.
BTW my xformer has static and gausse shielding. If I ever get one without, I'll repeat the procedure and post those results too. I'm confident in what I heard though (nothing).
Cheers
BTW my xformer has static and gausse shielding. If I ever get one without, I'll repeat the procedure and post those results too. I'm confident in what I heard though (nothing).
Cheers
Both my Holden and Fisher toroidals have most of the inside filled with some type of epoxy stuff, theres just a hole in the middle for the screw and bolt so theres no need for the large steel washer/top hat.
I took both bolts out to try this mod, normally I can hear smallest of changes with tweaks etc but I'll admit I heard no difference with this one, sorry
Keep the tweaks coming though guys even types like this are worth trying
Main thing I want to do now is find a better replacement for the AD8620
I took both bolts out to try this mod, normally I can hear smallest of changes with tweaks etc but I'll admit I heard no difference with this one, sorry
Keep the tweaks coming though guys even types like this are worth trying
Main thing I want to do now is find a better replacement for the AD8620
T.
Is it still true that you don't get the best sound from the AD8620 until you give clean outboard +/-12V? Have you tried that? I haven't seen any feedback from anybody on this mod although it was very highly recommended by Jan-Peter. I suspect it might be implemented in the CIaudio amps.
I will eventually try my 6 Avel toroids with and without bolt and cover. My Plitron toroids are potted just like yours.
Guy
Is it still true that you don't get the best sound from the AD8620 until you give clean outboard +/-12V? Have you tried that? I haven't seen any feedback from anybody on this mod although it was very highly recommended by Jan-Peter. I suspect it might be implemented in the CIaudio amps.
I will eventually try my 6 Avel toroids with and without bolt and cover. My Plitron toroids are potted just like yours.
Guy
That's just true with any op amp, sometimes the sky is just blue and the grass is just green, you know? Plitron here too, I have the extra shielding is all.
guyv said:
Hi Guy,
I did actually try it using both a LM317/337 based regulation and a small discrete shunt based reg. (I've not tried my ALW SR's yet)
It does improve the sound but to be honest it wasn't good enough to muck about with the mess imo, I've come to the conclusion I do not like the AD8620, to my ears its one of the poorest op-amps I've heard, I'll probably get some moans🙄 I don't think any amount of modding etc is going to help (for me) until this op-amp is changed, the only problem is knowing what to change it to, I don't really want to be swapping them too many times incase the print lifts.
One thing I also tried was connecting my source straight into the modulator so bypassing the input stage, you then realise what effect this op-amp has on the sound😉 the obvious problem with that is the lack of output
Forgot to mention the 80vA 2 x 0-15v transformers too
Hi T.
You took the op amp out of the equation by bypassing it like that which is a great test as you mentioned, but you musn't forget there's more in the signal path which you removed at the same time.
Such as the local decoupling caps for instance. I can now tell you though that it likely is the signature of the op amp you dont' like, since I have a different module entirely than before. It's retained alot of the coloration of the AD op amp.
I can't say this to you with absolute certainty, but you've heard the saying "the burr brown sound"?
Maybe we can boldy assume these characteristics are largly shared for products from a given manufacturer across their product range. So assume you don't like AD, try a BB, TI, LT. It won't be entirely correct but at least it narrows down your field of search. Go with the best specs, check out a few sights that compare them and see what each say's about the same amps.
Too bad people who have reportedly tried such things dont' bother following up with some results.
🙄
You took the op amp out of the equation by bypassing it like that which is a great test as you mentioned, but you musn't forget there's more in the signal path which you removed at the same time.
Such as the local decoupling caps for instance. I can now tell you though that it likely is the signature of the op amp you dont' like, since I have a different module entirely than before. It's retained alot of the coloration of the AD op amp.
I can't say this to you with absolute certainty, but you've heard the saying "the burr brown sound"?
Maybe we can boldy assume these characteristics are largly shared for products from a given manufacturer across their product range. So assume you don't like AD, try a BB, TI, LT. It won't be entirely correct but at least it narrows down your field of search. Go with the best specs, check out a few sights that compare them and see what each say's about the same amps.
Too bad people who have reportedly tried such things dont' bother following up with some results.
🙄
classd4sure said:
I think the main reason I've not bothered mucking about with op-amps is because I was hoping to try a discrete stage instead when I can find something suitable, I've mucked about with op-amps before when tweaking cdp's including AD826,OPA627,LT1028,AD827 etc which was for the I/V so I've already tried quite a few.
Somebody recommended to try the THS4082, only thing with these fast types is that they need really good decoupling so they don't take off😀 theres hardly much space on the UCD track to add all this decoupling but could try your recommendation of tants in place of the original smd ceramics?
What about the OPA2134? It comes standard in the base version of the UcD400 (I should probably have gotten this version, I use it for the woofers). I liked its sound with a Marchand active x-over. It is also used in the Linkwitz ASP for the Orions.
I wonder if it is easy to replace the AD8620 by the OPA2134 on the UcD180.
I wonder if it is easy to replace the AD8620 by the OPA2134 on the UcD180.
the opa will be a direct drop in. However if your version of AD module includes the current regulating diodes which bias the op amp to the negative rail, you'll have to remove them, as they must go to the positive rail for the opa2134, or don't use them at all, and/or with a very clean auxiliary supply.
Whatever suits you.
Whatever suits you.
Good to know. Yes I have the diodes. I guess there is no easy way to use them for the positive rail.
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