False Positives
As Mark said, there has never been (and hopefully never will be) a Trojan in Hornresp.
My computer is comprehensively protected by continuously-maintained Norton antivirus software. Full disk scans are run regularly. I am very careful what files I download and what email messages I open, particularly those containing attachments. Every time I upload a new Hornresp update I then immediately download a copy and run a virus scan on that file. I am acutely aware of the responsibility I have to users to ensure that Hornresp is benign software. For that reason when Hornresp is installed, all files are visible, nothing is hidden, and the Registry is not modified in any way. What you see is what you get.
The only way that a virus is going to get into Hornresp is if the host server in Germany is externally hacked and the Setup.exe file residing there is maliciously infected. Maybe Sabbelbacke might like to comment further, but in my view that chances of that happening are zero.
I have once again just downloaded a copy of Setup.exe and scanned it for viruses. As you can see from the attachment, it is quite clean and totally safe.
Unfortunately though, there is nothing I can do about over-zealous antivirus software "jumping at shadows".
As Mark said, there has never been (and hopefully never will be) a Trojan in Hornresp.
My computer is comprehensively protected by continuously-maintained Norton antivirus software. Full disk scans are run regularly. I am very careful what files I download and what email messages I open, particularly those containing attachments. Every time I upload a new Hornresp update I then immediately download a copy and run a virus scan on that file. I am acutely aware of the responsibility I have to users to ensure that Hornresp is benign software. For that reason when Hornresp is installed, all files are visible, nothing is hidden, and the Registry is not modified in any way. What you see is what you get.
The only way that a virus is going to get into Hornresp is if the host server in Germany is externally hacked and the Setup.exe file residing there is maliciously infected. Maybe Sabbelbacke might like to comment further, but in my view that chances of that happening are zero.
I have once again just downloaded a copy of Setup.exe and scanned it for viruses. As you can see from the attachment, it is quite clean and totally safe.
Unfortunately though, there is nothing I can do about over-zealous antivirus software "jumping at shadows".
Attachments
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It's very good that you are all very cautious about the files you download! But as viruses get clever and clever, it is obvious that antivirus-software has to fight harder and sometimes create false positives.
To complement the fact, that HornResp is certainly 100% clean, we can look in our exceptions tab which you can find in my tutorial on post #11091. In my case, I do a bit of coding myself and all my coding software needs these exceptions to work.
Perhaps the problem originates from the fact that these software constantly changes files. HornResp changes txt (short for text) files on your pc to save your precious speaker designs. We wouldn't want a trojan changing files on our pc, but in the case of HornResp changing innocent txt files. I think we will be fine
To complement the fact, that HornResp is certainly 100% clean, we can look in our exceptions tab which you can find in my tutorial on post #11091. In my case, I do a bit of coding myself and all my coding software needs these exceptions to work.
Perhaps the problem originates from the fact that these software constantly changes files. HornResp changes txt (short for text) files on your pc to save your precious speaker designs. We wouldn't want a trojan changing files on our pc, but in the case of HornResp changing innocent txt files. I think we will be fine
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Oops, should have said "the chances" not "that chances" - it was too late to edit the original message
.Sorry. HornResp constantly changes a file called HornResp.dat. And uses txt files for export. But the same idea applies
With the new windows builds being deployed, the "more paranoid" (and also more capable) security features of Windows are getting more and more common. Starting from Release 2004, some new security features are on board windows 10. This shifts the task of checking files for signed signatures, observing folders to prevent unwanted changes and scanning them, etc.... more and more to windows. There were times when a virusscanner had to be bought seperatelty, nowadays, windows can do most of the security stuff by itself. I even have some machines with nothing but windows security...
At the same time, the "threads" become more and more complex and clever - and the awareness of users of these topics is rising. So "dealing with threads" is becoming more and more of an issue. Ransomware is technically often very "stupid", but uses "user lack of competence" - so many features now becoming common have to prevent changes on the system far more drastically than a classical virus-scan would have done in the past.
On the one hand, it is good that MS takes these issues more seriously, on the other it hurts a 3rd party industry which made up a lot of the "security" market in the past. But that´s only a side note (europeans might remember monopoly topics on internet explorer a while ago..)
From version 2004 on, windows not only checks for signatures (which hornresp doesn´t have and never will have - as thousands of other prorgamms don't), it also checks for file changes in certain folders ("observe folder x and whenever something is going on there, stop it..")... Also, the files themselfes are checked (like tradtional virus scans).. etc.. so it does a lot more than simple "download a file and check for a virus"....
Since 2004 got deployed on the machines I service here, almost every little tool needs special treatment, since windows blocks almost everything the tool does... Users have to give rights explicitely, or the app will get blocked by default. In some cases, if the user you are working on has not enough rights on your machine, you might even have no meassure to deal with it and will have to "ask your admin"..
Only software which is digitally signed gets some "leaverage"...
This will make life for "small software projects" in the future harder - but to be fair, will make it harder for "bad software" to harm the system...
So the upside is "a little more security", but the downside is inconvinience.
Most things on how to deal with that were already mentioned above. Like:
- if windows blocks actions or a program, you have to tell win, that it´s fine:
Hornresp
- if you are unsure if the warning of a virus is legit or not, upload the file to virustotal.com to be shure.
- A checksum was mentioned - while this is a good idea in generall, it would also give a false "feeling of safety" : In the case Davids PC caught a virus, and hornresp would be infected (theoretically..), he would upload the virus and include that one in the checksum. If someone would get access to the Fileserver where hornresp is hosted, the could also change the checksum - so it wouldn´t rellay help to have a checksum. Checksums are fine in cases where software is offered on many different places on the internet and you have to make sure, you get the original one, not a "tampered with" one which could include spyware etc... Of course, it´s common pratice on many sites to include checksums, it´s not much work - but in my oppinion would lead to a false "safe feeling".. (Ah, the checksum is ok, so I am good.... let´s allow hornresp everyhting on my system...)...
- uploading hornresp to virustotal and giving this checksum and introducing it to the database aas mentioned above would provide a little more "safety" - but most false alarms of windows and the folder rights, permission setting, etc... trouble would still be there..
Since the annyoing behaviour of "the new windows" not only affects hornresp, my recommendation would be:
- look at the above posts on how to deal with these warnings. chances of running into these situations more often in the future are good.
- if unsure, if a virus is inside, double check.
- If David wants, he could upload setup.exe to virustotal.com before putting it on the download server and post the hash or link to it to give users the information, that the file has been scanned - it´s a little help, but not much. The confusion of windows alarms still will be there (so personally, I think it´s not necessery, but still a good idea).
@david, if I can assist you with the last one, you know where to find me
Oh, BTW - running windows 2004 here at the moment and after once giving hornresp permission, I am fine - so once you learn on how to deal with this, it really isn´t a big thing anymore... People will just take some time to get used to the "more strikt windows" ...
At the same time, the "threads" become more and more complex and clever - and the awareness of users of these topics is rising. So "dealing with threads" is becoming more and more of an issue. Ransomware is technically often very "stupid", but uses "user lack of competence" - so many features now becoming common have to prevent changes on the system far more drastically than a classical virus-scan would have done in the past.
On the one hand, it is good that MS takes these issues more seriously, on the other it hurts a 3rd party industry which made up a lot of the "security" market in the past. But that´s only a side note (europeans might remember monopoly topics on internet explorer a while ago..)
From version 2004 on, windows not only checks for signatures (which hornresp doesn´t have and never will have - as thousands of other prorgamms don't), it also checks for file changes in certain folders ("observe folder x and whenever something is going on there, stop it..")... Also, the files themselfes are checked (like tradtional virus scans).. etc.. so it does a lot more than simple "download a file and check for a virus"....
Since 2004 got deployed on the machines I service here, almost every little tool needs special treatment, since windows blocks almost everything the tool does... Users have to give rights explicitely, or the app will get blocked by default. In some cases, if the user you are working on has not enough rights on your machine, you might even have no meassure to deal with it and will have to "ask your admin"..
Only software which is digitally signed gets some "leaverage"...
This will make life for "small software projects" in the future harder - but to be fair, will make it harder for "bad software" to harm the system...
So the upside is "a little more security", but the downside is inconvinience.
Most things on how to deal with that were already mentioned above. Like:
- if windows blocks actions or a program, you have to tell win, that it´s fine:
Hornresp
- if you are unsure if the warning of a virus is legit or not, upload the file to virustotal.com to be shure.
- A checksum was mentioned - while this is a good idea in generall, it would also give a false "feeling of safety" : In the case Davids PC caught a virus, and hornresp would be infected (theoretically..), he would upload the virus and include that one in the checksum. If someone would get access to the Fileserver where hornresp is hosted, the could also change the checksum - so it wouldn´t rellay help to have a checksum. Checksums are fine in cases where software is offered on many different places on the internet and you have to make sure, you get the original one, not a "tampered with" one which could include spyware etc... Of course, it´s common pratice on many sites to include checksums, it´s not much work - but in my oppinion would lead to a false "safe feeling".. (Ah, the checksum is ok, so I am good.... let´s allow hornresp everyhting on my system...)...
- uploading hornresp to virustotal and giving this checksum and introducing it to the database aas mentioned above would provide a little more "safety" - but most false alarms of windows and the folder rights, permission setting, etc... trouble would still be there..
Since the annyoing behaviour of "the new windows" not only affects hornresp, my recommendation would be:
- look at the above posts on how to deal with these warnings. chances of running into these situations more often in the future are good.
- if unsure, if a virus is inside, double check.
- If David wants, he could upload setup.exe to virustotal.com before putting it on the download server and post the hash or link to it to give users the information, that the file has been scanned - it´s a little help, but not much. The confusion of windows alarms still will be there (so personally, I think it´s not necessery, but still a good idea).
@david, if I can assist you with the last one, you know where to find me
Oh, BTW - running windows 2004 here at the moment and after once giving hornresp permission, I am fine - so once you learn on how to deal with this, it really isn´t a big thing anymore... People will just take some time to get used to the "more strikt windows" ...
I'm a long time user of David's software. 20 years. The false positive Trojan issue is not new. Just search "Trojan" in this thread. You will find that this happens from time to time.
Hi Sabbelbacke,
Many thanks for posting the very comprehensive background information. It helps to put things in perspective and explains why we are seeing more and more false positives these days.
Noted, thanks. As you say, the benefit to be gained by first uploading Setup.exe to virustotal.com would be somewhat limited, in that it wouldn't actually prevent the false positives from occurring. At this stage I think I will probably just keep things as simple as I can, and continue with the current process.
Kind regards,
David
Many thanks for posting the very comprehensive background information. It helps to put things in perspective and explains why we are seeing more and more false positives these days.
@david, if I can assist you with the last one, you know where to find me
Noted, thanks. As you say, the benefit to be gained by first uploading Setup.exe to virustotal.com would be somewhat limited, in that it wouldn't actually prevent the false positives from occurring. At this stage I think I will probably just keep things as simple as I can, and continue with the current process
.Kind regards,
David
Hello David,
Glad to hear that, I totally support that
We can probably put the topic aside for now - until the next windows 10 Version
Kind regards,
Sabbelbacke
As you say, the benefit to be gained by first uploading Setup.exe to virustotal.com would be somewhat limited, in that it wouldn't actually prevent the false positives from occurring. At this stage I think I will probably just keep things as simple as I can, and continue with the current process
Glad to hear that, I totally support that
We can probably put the topic aside for now - until the next windows 10 Version
Kind regards,
Sabbelbacke
Just for completeness, don't want to bore you guys:
need to get access to David's private key make a new valid checksum.
So the checksum would be safe, and a link to virustotal with that checksum would point out that it's infected in your scenario.
Md5, sha1 or sha256 is supporetd by virustotal.
That's why i mentioned to sign the checksum with gpg. Someone would also
need to get access to David's private key make a new valid checksum.
So the checksum would be safe, and a link to virustotal with that checksum would point out that it's infected in your scenario.
In case it's not clear, that hash would be the exact same as the above mentionend checksum.
Md5, sha1 or sha256 is supporetd by virustotal.
AKABAK 3 compatible scripts
David,
ABEC is now re-branded as AKABAK 3.
Having failed to ever get AKABAK 2 run on my system, I wrote to the developers requesting for AKABAK 3 to be able to import (Hornresp generated) AKABAK 2 scripts.
OTOH, is it feasible for Hornresp to generate AKABAK 3 compatible scripts?
David,
ABEC is now re-branded as AKABAK 3.
Having failed to ever get AKABAK 2 run on my system, I wrote to the developers requesting for AKABAK 3 to be able to import (Hornresp generated) AKABAK 2 scripts.
OTOH, is it feasible for Hornresp to generate AKABAK 3 compatible scripts?
Hi Giri,
I ceased developing new AkAbak export scripts a long time ago because of the amount of work involved in writing the code to generate them.
There is no way in the world that I am now going to start all over again and produce scripts for AkAbak 3
.Stay safe,
David
Since support end for 1809 is coming soon (unless you have entreprise or edu licence), or have a lstc one - it would probably a good idea to update to the most recent windows 2004 anyway. I don´t know the exact configuration of your machine - but you probably need admin rights to do these updates anyway.
Is it possible to ask your admin about these rights or get a passwort?
maybe one workaround could help: the setup of hornresp should be extractable by winzip,winrar etc... So you might be able to simply extract the files within and then start hornresp?
If all fails, you could do some nasty hacking stuff to get the admin password - but I´d rather not go into detail on such matters here...
hm, I somehow feel like I am missing a simple solution at the moment, have to wrap my mind around this one more time.
As I recall, the older Akabak was 16 Bit only, so a recent windows 64 bit might not want to start it up... Did you try to whip up a virtual machine with, lets say windows XP and install it there?
Edit: Years ago, I whipped up a react os virtual machine with hornresp in it... It might be worth revisiting this idea and build a virtual machine with some speaker software installed in it... I fear that distributing this would not be possible, even if only freeware was included - but since installing reactos in a VM isn´t that complicated.... you could try yourself.
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Virtualbox works for me really well. Another way might be Linux and Wine - with a bit of effort, I was able to run Hornresp - but I do not remember if I tried Akabak with Wine or on some older PC with older Windows. But I remember running it and finding it difficult to lear, so I set it aside.
Edit2: There is a way to run Wine in Windows - Wine on Windows lets you run Windows apps... on Windows (through Windows Subsystem for Linux) - Liliputing
Edit2: There is a way to run Wine in Windows - Wine on Windows lets you run Windows apps... on Windows (through Windows Subsystem for Linux) - Liliputing
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I am not sure what dependencies Akabak has, if Reactos would work - would have to try... I am sure it´s not that difficult to get some Windows XP frome somewhere - if closed up in the VM, there is no danger in running it...
In fact, a few years ago, I think with windows 7 - the "XP Mode" was introduced - you could download a virtual machine directly from microsoft, containing a full Windows XP - which you could simply start on whatever virtualisation you wanted. I recall virtualbox, parallels, vmware and the MS-own hyper-v to work with this.
Since hyper-v already is built into win10 nowadays, one could revisit this idea and download a "official" winxp and GO... Of course, some licence will be needed, should not be too hard to get an old XP lizence...
Didn´t think about this for a while, let´s see if it is still around:
Download Windows XP Mode from Official Microsoft Download Center
seems so
In fact, a few years ago, I think with windows 7 - the "XP Mode" was introduced - you could download a virtual machine directly from microsoft, containing a full Windows XP - which you could simply start on whatever virtualisation you wanted. I recall virtualbox, parallels, vmware and the MS-own hyper-v to work with this.
Since hyper-v already is built into win10 nowadays, one could revisit this idea and download a "official" winxp and GO... Of course, some licence will be needed, should not be too hard to get an old XP lizence...
Didn´t think about this for a while, let´s see if it is still around:
Download Windows XP Mode from Official Microsoft Download Center
seems so
Only in the sense that you will not want to uninstall the program once you get addicted to it
Hornresp sneaks into your computer as a seemingly small and simple program. Then you discover all the functionality, and it starts filling up your computer with loudspeaker designs. Once you're hooked, you will not be able to get rid of it.