60 degree keele ev hr6040
realistic sound driven by little triode amps
http://www.diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/Keele_1975-05_AES_Preprint_-_Whats_So_Sacred_Exp_Horns.pdf
realistic sound driven by little triode amps
http://www.diy-audio.narod.ru/litr/Keele_1975-05_AES_Preprint_-_Whats_So_Sacred_Exp_Horns.pdf
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Hi Pooh, very interesting all your posts.
I have doubts regarding some leaf-over components I got and I would like to have your opinion if they could be integrated in a HLCM-like system....
1- Can the TAD TM1201H reach 100Hz in a mid-bass horn like InlowSound ? (to cover 100 to 600Hz)
2- Radian 950PB + Be-diaphragm in JMLC-Iwata-300 (to cover 600 to 6-8K)
3- What do you recommend from 6-8K up a horn TW (like Fostex) or a CD + horn.
4- Should be of benefit use a similar horn in the TW as for the MR ?? for instance the JMLC-Iwata-1200 with the TW's.
5- As XO I have a Marchand XM-44 (3 Way) but it can be converted to 4 way.
6- Low frequencies to be covered with a single way.
Thanks,
C.A.
I have doubts regarding some leaf-over components I got and I would like to have your opinion if they could be integrated in a HLCM-like system....
1- Can the TAD TM1201H reach 100Hz in a mid-bass horn like InlowSound ? (to cover 100 to 600Hz)
2- Radian 950PB + Be-diaphragm in JMLC-Iwata-300 (to cover 600 to 6-8K)
3- What do you recommend from 6-8K up a horn TW (like Fostex) or a CD + horn.
4- Should be of benefit use a similar horn in the TW as for the MR ?? for instance the JMLC-Iwata-1200 with the TW's.
5- As XO I have a Marchand XM-44 (3 Way) but it can be converted to 4 way.
6- Low frequencies to be covered with a single way.
Thanks,
C.A.
Hello, that will all go together but it is work to get it right. The treble horn/driver is best to match the middle horn/driver as far as possible beyond/below the crossover point in radiation and output. A wide bandwith compression driver in the Iwata 1200 horn seems like it will be a good choice for treble. With the 4th order network it will be pretty easy to get this all matched up but in my experience the cookie cutter 4th order is not always the best sounding with horns due to the natural band-pass. The Marchand will get you to maybe 80 percent and than you should experiment with different crossover components to get you to 100 percent. For below 100 Hz I would consider stereo bass to 60-70 Hz or lower. Maybe a pair of corner loaded line arrays behind your horn arrays.
Thanks Pooh !!
I will keep evaluating the project. No big expenses since I have most of the stuff already. What's confusing me is the mixed opinions about the TM1201H, some guys posted it is not ok for horn loading, some says it is. I think you know this driver very well, so perhaps you can give me your opinion. I do know as direct radiator does not reach too low but how low could be pushed in the right horn ??
Rgds,
C.A.
I will keep evaluating the project. No big expenses since I have most of the stuff already. What's confusing me is the mixed opinions about the TM1201H, some guys posted it is not ok for horn loading, some says it is. I think you know this driver very well, so perhaps you can give me your opinion. I do know as direct radiator does not reach too low but how low could be pushed in the right horn ??
Rgds,
C.A.
It worked best for me in a large one to one throat and a short front loaded horn. I never used in a horn that would load the driver below 120 Hz. I imagine it would work lower than that but would probably use a more suitable 12" if you want to get bass out of it. 100 Hz should be OK. It is a true midrange driver and isn't really a bass horn driver so that may be where the different opinions come in.
ALTEC 288 VS JBL 2435 10MS SETTLING
here is a comparison of two different drivers in two different horns. the jbl be driver is FAST - the jbl 2435hpl be is in the big keele 60 degree conic expo horn - the aluminum altec 288 8g is in the jbl 2435 cinema horn - 10 ms
JBL 2435 IN KEELE
ALTEC 288 8G IN JBL CINEMA HORN 2384
here is a comparison of two different drivers in two different horns. the jbl be driver is FAST - the jbl 2435hpl be is in the big keele 60 degree conic expo horn - the aluminum altec 288 8g is in the jbl 2435 cinema horn - 10 ms
JBL 2435 IN KEELE
ALTEC 288 8G IN JBL CINEMA HORN 2384
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This incredibly quiet background hiss is the absolute limit of the sensitivity of human hearing, and is taken as the reference point against which all other sound levels are measured.
In physical terms, this represents a sound pressure level of 20 micro Pascals, or expressed in terms of a power level, 1 x 10-12 Watts per square metre. (Remember this value, because it is used to define the lower limit of human hearing sensitivity)
At the opposite end of the scale, the ear can respond (albeit painfully) to sound pressure levels in excess of 20 Pascals or power levels of 1 Watt per square metre.
This means the ear is sensitive to sounds that vary in pressure level by a factor of 1 million, or in terms of power by a factor of 1,000 billion (1012)!
The ear’s huge range of sensitivity is called its dynamic range.
In physical terms, this represents a sound pressure level of 20 micro Pascals, or expressed in terms of a power level, 1 x 10-12 Watts per square metre. (Remember this value, because it is used to define the lower limit of human hearing sensitivity)
At the opposite end of the scale, the ear can respond (albeit painfully) to sound pressure levels in excess of 20 Pascals or power levels of 1 Watt per square metre.
This means the ear is sensitive to sounds that vary in pressure level by a factor of 1 million, or in terms of power by a factor of 1,000 billion (1012)!
The ear’s huge range of sensitivity is called its dynamic range.
Wow, I guess I've never read it in mathematical terms like that. Fascinating, thank you for posting that!
I've been meaning to ask you about JBL 2360's for use as mid-range horn. I have an opportunity to buy some, and have read good reviews. Curious if you've ever owned them and what your thoughts on them might be.
I bought a pair when JBL had the tent sales a a few years back and never used them. I gave them to a fellow that bought a pair of TAD drivers off of me. We set them up in his big (probably 2000 sq ft) basement with some extra bass horns I had, He already had the biggest Edgar tractrix horns (300 flare I think) and he preferred the JBL's with the TAD drivers. He still has that system going on maybe 15 years now. I don't think they would work for me in the upper treble but from 500 to maybe 3500 and some dampening thay could be as good just about anything. Because of the size it will be hard to integrate into a full range system . I see them on ebay for some really low prices but the shipping can be insane, If you can get a pair for a fair price locally what can you lose?
Precisely my thoughts. If I can get them cheaply enough I'll give em a listen.
I must say I am enjoying this thread quite a bit. It's nice to see different horn and driver combinations, with your thoughts and measurements in room.
I had never heard of the Community m200's, but now I'm casually looking for a pair to try myself.
I must say I am enjoying this thread quite a bit. It's nice to see different horn and driver combinations, with your thoughts and measurements in room.
I had never heard of the Community m200's, but now I'm casually looking for a pair to try myself.
I have the M200's not M200A's, never had the new ones you buy online. The M200 aren't as extended in the upper range as the newer model but the midrange is dead on spooky. I was comparing them to the Altec 288, 299 and the little JBL 2435 be driver and within their range the only one that is near as convincing is the JBL because of it's resolution - BUT the M200's do not have the small coloration of the JBL - kind of a syrupy glaze. Both of them are better than the Altecs under 3K. They would be a great driver to use in the 2360 except how would you integrate the treble horn with that big horn?
Before I went off o this tangent of trying to make a 2-way horn system , that didn't work, and then to trying a wide range midrange with treble three way, (better) I was using the Community driver. Now I think I'm back, I just haven't found a driver that will match it in the upper midrange and low treble. Even with 128K streaming they sound convincing, LOL, put on a good album and it's heaven.
Before I went off o this tangent of trying to make a 2-way horn system , that didn't work, and then to trying a wide range midrange with treble three way, (better) I was using the Community driver. Now I think I'm back, I just haven't found a driver that will match it in the upper midrange and low treble. Even with 128K streaming they sound convincing, LOL, put on a good album and it's heaven.
I don't have that driver. My guess it is exactly what people found. A great match for the JBL 2384 cinema horn. I can't speak of a direct comparison with the Community driver. The community is good to 3k where the JBL they speak of they are using all the way through the treble. I have not found a 1.4 or 1.5 format driver that I preferred over using a separate treble horn.
Thanks Pooh,
I thought they pushed the M200 higher at Avantgarde untill its natural roll off (5K).
That's interresting what you say about horn & tweeter CD : I have no experience with horns but liking too the dynamic behavior of music I surmise the good result you have in bass & mid to result for a part of such tweeter ?! But I'm not a specialist in XO either ! Did you have the temptation to try AMTs above 8K (different perception of soundstage but less slam and impact in the mid-bass area?)
Anyway, I'm a folower of this thread Would like to see a DIY horn design which is working from A to Z ! What a pity (because my personal tastes) than it needs active XO (I like DACS and not AD/DA).
PS : is it possible to acheive constant directivity with two horns (XO between the mid and the treble) ? (if not : you choosed dynamic other soundstage in order of priority= trade off ?)
I thought they pushed the M200 higher at Avantgarde untill its natural roll off (5K).
That's interresting what you say about horn & tweeter CD : I have no experience with horns but liking too the dynamic behavior of music I surmise the good result you have in bass & mid to result for a part of such tweeter ?! But I'm not a specialist in XO either ! Did you have the temptation to try AMTs above 8K (different perception of soundstage but less slam and impact in the mid-bass area?)
Anyway, I'm a folower of this thread
Would like to see a DIY horn design which is working from A to Z ! What a pity (because my personal tastes) than it needs active XO (I like DACS and not AD/DA).PS : is it possible to acheive constant directivity with two horns (XO between the mid and the treble) ? (if not : you choosed dynamic other soundstage in order of priority= trade off ?)
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