Thanks!
I used the 12-sided Tractrix petal horn calculator hosted over at Inlow's webpage (scroll down a bit):
http://inlowsound.weebly.com/diy-paper-horn.html
You can calculate for any number of sides, I did 11. I drafted the output to Illustrator, printed a whole bunch of that on the thick paper and cut it all out by hand and eye.
Paper horns covered in fiberglass have worked really well for me in the past. The 'petal' method is excellent.
Here's some random observations:
1) I have not found anything better than comic book backing boards for building these. Construction paper is too flimsy, and cardboard is too thick. I built some paper horns a few months ago out of construction paper, and it was noticeably flimsier and difficult to work with than comic book backing boards. Comic book backing boards are a dense and compressed type of cardboard. You can buy them at any comic book store.
2) I print the petals out on paper, and then I glue it to the comic book backing boards. That way all the petals are perfect. If even one petal is off by 10%, the whole horn will be difficult to complete.
Paper horns covered in fiberglass have worked really well for me in the past. The 'petal' method is excellent.
Here's some random observations:
1) I have not found anything better than comic book backing boards for building these. Construction paper is too flimsy, and cardboard is too thick. I built some paper horns a few months ago out of construction paper, and it was noticeably flimsier and difficult to work with than comic book backing boards. Comic book backing boards are a dense and compressed type of cardboard. You can buy them at any comic book store.
2) I print the petals out on paper, and then I glue it to the comic book backing boards. That way all the petals are perfect. If even one petal is off by 10%, the whole horn will be difficult to complete.
I forget the name for the paper I used, but it's the kind that comes in ~18"x24" sheets to cover workspaces. It's not as flimsy as construction paper. It was flexible enough to go through the printer itself yet rigid enough once formed into the petal shape. My horns are ~700Hz, mouth ~6" across and 4.75" axial length. I would not build larger horns than these with this paper though. I think I know what this comic backing paper is like and I agree it would be better overall. As long as it's not thick enough to require compound mitering the joints... 🙂
I built the below horn for FF125K with 0.25" hardboard (HDF I believe), no mitering the joints, just plenty of hot melt glue!
It was quite strong still and ,once done with it, was surprisingly hard to take apart.
Patrick Bateman - with the various DIY horns, waveguides and lenses you've toyed with over time, ever been tempted by the K-Tube?
TerryO - So how's the project coming along? I missed it if already posted, but what of the Sato horns, you already have those, or will DIY / have them built? What driver will go on there?
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
TerryO - So how's the project coming along? I missed it if already posted, but what of the Sato horns, you already have those, or will DIY / have them built? What driver will go on there?
Hi IG,
I've talked to a couple of people that have actually attempted or done Sato Horns and they seemed to think it was a lot of work. Presently, I'm more concerned with getting something up and running pretty soon, than with the Sato (which I certainly want to do). The Sato can wait for awhile as I attempt to knock out some of the easier and less complicated projects. I haven't decided on a CD as yet. I'm currently looking at a three way, direct radiator/OB system with about 93-94dB sensitivity. I want something that sounds decent and costs...well, low enough to where I can afford it! Once I have something that works well, I'll start moving toward a more refined and perhaps elaborate system. I want this speaker finished in time for my 100th Birthday, so I need to pick up the pace a bit!
😀
(note: I've actually been thinking of your K-Tube for the top end!)
Best Regards,
Terry
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I bet Sato horns would be lots of work. I'd like to try a large midrange horn of some sort one day, maybe on a Radian 850PB or something.
If you try a K-Tube, schedule 40 PVC may not be the prettiest, but may look good if well-smoothed/sanded and painted. The above 0.0625" wall brass tube looks cool IMO, but was quite ringy. The TPC aluminum (0.125" wall) cast tube is pretty dead and braced at the throat.
Just checking in to let you know that I haven't died, or been kidnapped by strange Life Forms from another Galaxy. This Summer has been a crazy time, as I had to do Employee Evaluations and then spent an additional month negotiating a pay-raise for one of our crew. This was followed by a week of Jury Duty and then setting up and putting together everything for our Speaker Building Contest. I'll be busy for another three weeks and then hopefully things will relax and I can get back to my Audio Projects and the Fun Stuff!
Best Regards,
Terry Olson
Best Regards,
Terry Olson
I'm Back...finally!
Hi All,
Things and events seem to conspire to stop any progress on the projects that I'm interested in doing! My plan for the speaker took a turn and I've changed direction for now. A member of the forum had a pair of 8 inch concentric drivers for sale, that I have had in mind for a number of years.
So for the time being I will try using a RADIAN 5208C-8 drivers with a single (or two) 18 inch woofers per side. Dave Rosgaard has worked out a series crossover for the Radian driver and I believe that I'll just use some sort of separate bass/subwoofer amp(s) for the woofers, at least for the time being.
The Radian is currently mounted on a open baffle playing right now and it sounds very nice. I've been listening to Keith Jarrett/ Michala Petri playing some of "Handel's Sonatas", as well as "Meditations" (Disc #1) by James Galway. Very light and delicate with a lot of air...I'm actually quite impressed with the sound of Dave's Series Crossover. I might mention that the mid and tweeter overlay each other perfectly on the actual Frequency Response graph...this is perhaps one of the best frequency graphs I've ever seen!
The plan is to use open baffles for everthing except, naturally, the concentric tweeter. If that presents a problem (not for me, I no longer hear anything very high up), I have a few tricks that I may try.
I hope to have a roughed-out pair of speakers put together for several events this Summer. We shall see.
Best Regards,
Terry
Hi All,
Things and events seem to conspire to stop any progress on the projects that I'm interested in doing! My plan for the speaker took a turn and I've changed direction for now. A member of the forum had a pair of 8 inch concentric drivers for sale, that I have had in mind for a number of years.
So for the time being I will try using a RADIAN 5208C-8 drivers with a single (or two) 18 inch woofers per side. Dave Rosgaard has worked out a series crossover for the Radian driver and I believe that I'll just use some sort of separate bass/subwoofer amp(s) for the woofers, at least for the time being.
The Radian is currently mounted on a open baffle playing right now and it sounds very nice. I've been listening to Keith Jarrett/ Michala Petri playing some of "Handel's Sonatas", as well as "Meditations" (Disc #1) by James Galway. Very light and delicate with a lot of air...I'm actually quite impressed with the sound of Dave's Series Crossover. I might mention that the mid and tweeter overlay each other perfectly on the actual Frequency Response graph...this is perhaps one of the best frequency graphs I've ever seen!
The plan is to use open baffles for everthing except, naturally, the concentric tweeter. If that presents a problem (not for me, I no longer hear anything very high up), I have a few tricks that I may try.
I hope to have a roughed-out pair of speakers put together for several events this Summer. We shall see.
Best Regards,
Terry
I run a similar rig (12" coax, 2x18"). The 12" is open baffle crossed at 300 and 1k.
There's a good chance you'll live with this rig for quite some time IMO. I'm still impressed on a daily basis over a year later. It does lots of things right.
Open baffle 18's will work well in a home environment. Mine are in boxes now for multi-purpose use but I did try an h-frame and it worked very well to 40.
There's a good chance you'll live with this rig for quite some time IMO. I'm still impressed on a daily basis over a year later. It does lots of things right.
Open baffle 18's will work well in a home environment. Mine are in boxes now for multi-purpose use but I did try an h-frame and it worked very well to 40.
Alright TerryO! I've yet to play with a real coaxial driver and the 5208C is one unit I've though about on several occasions, an other being B&C 8CX21. This should make for a great system! As for dipole use, some people like to remove the rear cap on the compression driver - just sayin', can't recommend it myself as I've never tried.
Hi Ernie,
So far, I'm very happy with what I'm hearing. This may turn out even better that I had hoped...it certainly seems like it! I need to fashion a pair of baffles for the woofers and build the stands. This may very well be the easiest "decent" speaker I've ever messed around with.
Thanks for the encouragement!
Best Regards,
TerryO
Definitely looking forward to your finished project!
I also used bonded logic ultratouch on the back side of the h-frames and nude coax. This noticeably cleaned up imaging. Although room and preferences will determine if it's needed or not.
I also used bonded logic ultratouch on the back side of the h-frames and nude coax. This noticeably cleaned up imaging. Although room and preferences will determine if it's needed or not.
Hey IG,
I finally beat you to something new! In the past, I'd get an idea and then quickly learn that you've already "been there, done that". 😀
I'm back in the game, at least for a bit. It seems that every time I turn around something comes up.
I need to see how I can integrate the woofer (or woofers) with the Radian. At this time, I suspect that I can probably get away with a single 18 per side which certainly makes for a much more compact speaker system!
This was going to be a temporary phase in the quest and it may turn out to be a keeper. Naturally, I'll be forced to start on an entirely new speaker design...(just don't tell my wife!).
🙄
Best Regards,
Terry
I'll certainly keep that in mind as I progress! Sounds like a very worthwhile tweak.
😀
Thanks Ernie,
TerryO
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Not that I've never toyed with the concept, does that count? 🙂
Probably does, but it shouldn't ! 😀
Best Regards,
Terry
Probably does, but it shouldn't ! 😀
Best Regards,
Terry
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Edit: The phase tracking of the frequency response overlays very nicely. See attached. 🙂
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Right you are Professor! I'm afraid I stayed up pretty late last night listening to it (2>1 Mono)! 😀
Very nice Dave!
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