I took the liberty of fixing a few things and tidying up a wee.
Thankee Master Weldone!
I remain forever in your debt, or at least untill 4:15, which-ever comes first!
Capt. "X"
That is what i was hoping for. GM would not recommend it without a good reason and i respect his oppinion, of course.
I am trying to find good mid for my friend 8" or 10" and looking at the Delta Pro8a specs it just might get the job done. He needs mid that goes from about 300Hz to 2-2,5KHz - not so far from what you are after.
He has limited budget so i was looking at the Eminence DeltaPro8 and Celestion TF1020, both mentioned here. Celestion is looking quite good for the money - 42 euros (58USD) a piece is very good price. It is on discount at the moment.
Sorry for the OT. I hope that you will be able to continue with this project soon.
Cheers
Consider that a 2" VC runs out of 'steam' around ~2158 Hz, so all the BW above this is a function of diaphragm material wave speed and break-up modes, so to the first approximation based on response plots is that the TF1020 will need either a lower XO point and/or a steeper slope, which centered ~ at our hearing acuity peak can make for getting a seamless sounding XO a tedious affair.
Its inductance appears to be too low to justify a zobel, so being an ‘acoustic solutions for acoustic problems’ kind of designer, some form of foam/whatever filter in front of the driver to roll off its HF is what I’d do, then just a little something to damp down what’s left of that ~11 kHz peak if need be.
From this we see that the pioneers did it up right by using 1.0-1.5” VCs for such apps, but then they didn’t have to cope with handling mass quantities of power like today.
GM
Its inductance appears to be too low to justify a zobel, so being an ‘acoustic solutions for acoustic problems’ kind of designer, some form of foam/whatever filter in front of the driver to roll off its HF is what I’d do, then just a little something to damp down what’s left of that ~11 kHz peak if need be.
From this we see that the pioneers did it up right by using 1.0-1.5” VCs for such apps, but then they didn’t have to cope with handling mass quantities of power like today.
GM
I will look into drivers with smaller VC that can do at least 3KHz for this purpose. Thank you very much for suggestions GM.
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More Bad News!
I just got off the phone and was told that the second possible source of Drivers turned out to be defective Drivers!
I will now turn to another alternative. I was told that it appears that some mid-drivers may be available. So, like they say: "Regroup and prepare to attack again!"
Best Regards,
TerryO
I just got off the phone and was told that the second possible source of Drivers turned out to be defective Drivers!
I will now turn to another alternative. I was told that it appears that some mid-drivers may be available. So, like they say: "Regroup and prepare to attack again!"
Best Regards,
TerryO
Davep10 got any 8" RS 40-1271 or 1272? These are pretty sweet just by themselves in free air, though with very limited power handling these need a good wide BW mid-bass to cover the lower end.
GM
GM
At this stage...Both!
This project is shaped, to a large extent, by what is available to me at a cost that I can afford. The challenge is to put something together that not only works and sounds good, but could serve as an inspiration for others.
Best Regards,
TerryO
What do you think about Beyma ? Here are couple of 8" and 10" midbass units that might get the job done:
8"
http://www.beyma.com/uploads/ftp/Fichas_Tecnicas/000000630.PDF
http://www.beyma.com/uploads/ftp/Fichas_Tecnicas/000000633.PDF
10"
http://www.beyma.com/uploads/ftp/Fichas_Tecnicas/000000631.PDF
http://www.beyma.com/uploads/ftp/Fichas_Tecnicas/000000690.PDF
It should not be expensive.
8"
http://www.beyma.com/uploads/ftp/Fichas_Tecnicas/000000630.PDF
http://www.beyma.com/uploads/ftp/Fichas_Tecnicas/000000633.PDF
10"
http://www.beyma.com/uploads/ftp/Fichas_Tecnicas/000000631.PDF
http://www.beyma.com/uploads/ftp/Fichas_Tecnicas/000000690.PDF
It should not be expensive.
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Consider two Classic 3-way high efficiency designs:
18" woofer + Xover 90Hz to 10" midbass + Xover 1300Hz to 90H x 40V waveguide with 1" compression driver. The 90x40 polar pattern is good for home theater couch, or corner placement.
18" woofer + Xover 90Hz to 12" midbass + Xover 1600Hz to 60H x 40V waveguide with 1" compression driver. The 60x40 polar pattern is good for small rooms.
Low cost BIG woofers:
21'' Die Cast Professional Woofer - 800W RMSMCM Part #: 55-2985 | MCM Audio Select Part #: 55-2985
MCM Audio Select 21'' Die Cast Professional Woofer - 800W RMS | 55-2985 (552985) | MCM Audio Select
$139.00
18" Peavy LoRider 18" woofer ~$220 This is a well reviewed, pro audio quality woofer.
model 479910 has a 163g Mms and produces 32Hz bass in an 8 cuft cabinet.
model 560600 has a 198g Mms and produces 24Hz bass in a 12 cuft cabinet.
GOOD 10" and 12" midbass:
Faital Pro 10” 10PR300/10PR310 100Hz – 1,200Hz 96db/W $165
Faital 10FE200 $60, needs large sealed volume
Beyma CM10 $80, needs large sealed volume
Faital 12"12PR300 $185
Eminence DeltaPro-12A $135
90x40 waveguide === SEOS12 ~$30
60x40 horn 18Sound XR1064 ~$85
12+SEOS designs at:
Fusion-12 Tempest - Fusion Series - Waveguide Speaker Kits DIY Sound Group
Price Break Down:
12" Eminence Delta Pro-12A: $139.99
Denovo DNA-360: $79.50
SEOS-12 waveguide: $28
Set of crossover parts: $46.04
18" woofer + Xover 90Hz to 10" midbass + Xover 1300Hz to 90H x 40V waveguide with 1" compression driver. The 90x40 polar pattern is good for home theater couch, or corner placement.
18" woofer + Xover 90Hz to 12" midbass + Xover 1600Hz to 60H x 40V waveguide with 1" compression driver. The 60x40 polar pattern is good for small rooms.
Low cost BIG woofers:
21'' Die Cast Professional Woofer - 800W RMSMCM Part #: 55-2985 | MCM Audio Select Part #: 55-2985
MCM Audio Select 21'' Die Cast Professional Woofer - 800W RMS | 55-2985 (552985) | MCM Audio Select
$139.00
18" Peavy LoRider 18" woofer ~$220 This is a well reviewed, pro audio quality woofer.
model 479910 has a 163g Mms and produces 32Hz bass in an 8 cuft cabinet.
model 560600 has a 198g Mms and produces 24Hz bass in a 12 cuft cabinet.
GOOD 10" and 12" midbass:
Faital Pro 10” 10PR300/10PR310 100Hz – 1,200Hz 96db/W $165
Faital 10FE200 $60, needs large sealed volume
Beyma CM10 $80, needs large sealed volume
Faital 12"12PR300 $185
Eminence DeltaPro-12A $135
90x40 waveguide === SEOS12 ~$30
60x40 horn 18Sound XR1064 ~$85
12+SEOS designs at:
Fusion-12 Tempest - Fusion Series - Waveguide Speaker Kits DIY Sound Group
Price Break Down:
12" Eminence Delta Pro-12A: $139.99
Denovo DNA-360: $79.50
SEOS-12 waveguide: $28
Set of crossover parts: $46.04
Attachments
I've been busy for several day with my Son. He's on leave from the Army, so we've been getting together when he's able to.
Anyway, I'd like to thank everyone for the info on those drivers and you may be assured that I'll be going over your suggestions "very carefully" in the next couple of days.
Thanks again,
TerryO
Anyway, I'd like to thank everyone for the info on those drivers and you may be assured that I'll be going over your suggestions "very carefully" in the next couple of days.
Thanks again,
TerryO
TerryO,
Are your Small SATO Horn speaker plans similar to the Jean Hiagra design attached?
Attachments
Good question, I'll have to check one against the other and see if they are similar.
BTW, A friend at the Pacific Northwest Audio Society meeting tonight gifted me with 2 pairs of 18 inch Woofers, another 18 inch single (thought to match the woofer that I have already posted spec's for), plus a pair of 8 inch mids.
I'll be checking them much closer tomorrow morning. We'll see how it looks in the sunshine. OK, we're in Seattle and nobody has actually seen the Sun in years!
🙄
Best Regards,
TerryO
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Cool! What brands/models?
Yeah, I endured a near continuous 'liquid sunshine' during my lone cycle trip down the NW Coast from Alaska, but certainly beautiful country because of it.
GM
Yeah, I endured a near continuous 'liquid sunshine' during my lone cycle trip down the NW Coast from Alaska, but certainly beautiful country because of it.
GM
Hi Greg,
Concerning the rain, it gets pretty old as anyone around here can tell you and evidently you experienced yourself! We have a major population of Scandihoovians here in the NW, and that's because it's very much like the lousy weather in Norway!
As for the drivers, they're still in the truck, so I'm not sure what I have yet.
I was up late last night at the Audio Club listening to a DAC that one of our members has been working on for the last three years. It was quite nice sounding and I understand that it is (or will be soon ?) in production.
I best be up and at it!
Best Regards,
Terry
To start this journey, have your skeched out your listening room with speaker placement options? Do you have an inventory of available amplifiers and passive/analog/digital crossover equipment?
Recall our earlier discussion on Seattle weather effects when you design your crossover... The speed of sound changes with temperature, a little bit with humidity − but not much with atmospheric pressure. Frequency dependent attenuation varies with humidity. Graphs on this thread:
http://www.diyaudio.com/forums/full...t-seattle-speaker-builders-2.html#post2424313
"The secret to winning a Seattle Speaker Contest that's held "during a normal cold, wet evening" is to use extremely "fast" drivers to compensate for the effects of humidity. It also helps to voice them for a rather dry, etched sound, as this further helps to offset the effects of our miserable, damp climate." TerryO
At my age, the woofers put out all the high frequencies that I can hear! 😀
Ok just kidding.
The woofers were available at an absolutely great price, so I went that way first. I'll try some midrange drivers that I already have, but I'm pretty much in agreement with GM and may end up doing some shopping for mid-range drivers. The highs should be pretty easy as the drivers dont have to output even much in the way of midrange frequencies. There is also an abundance of very reasonably priced HF drivers and horns that should work very well in this system.
Best Regards,
TerryO
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