Hello,
Was it a cement resistor ? How much Z please ?
Whatever some say, if your surce and amp are very ransparent resistors have a sounding signature and sometimes verry little details may be important.
It should be interesting if you perform another test by introducing some change in relation with what you said about each drivers to make an opinion more.
For the Faital compression, a resistor that has a clearer or with more light introduced like a Mundorf Supreme resistor or a Mox if the test was performed with a cement.
And for the metalic diag. of the other driver, introducing a Mills MRA 12W and also perform the same Z with cement again but with // cement resistors or Kiwame 5W.
Devil is in the details and I surmise that's more important than some may claim if we are in the diminishing return of the few % of details that help to choose two sota drivers as the ones you just tested 🙂
Of course as said on horn was made for one of the model and it counts more, hence the little layout cheating to balance the sounding 😎
Btw thanks, for the subjective listening impression 🙂 . what was the mouth overture numbers of the horn ?
Was it a cement resistor ? How much Z please ?
Whatever some say, if your surce and amp are very ransparent resistors have a sounding signature and sometimes verry little details may be important.
It should be interesting if you perform another test by introducing some change in relation with what you said about each drivers to make an opinion more.
For the Faital compression, a resistor that has a clearer or with more light introduced like a Mundorf Supreme resistor or a Mox if the test was performed with a cement.
And for the metalic diag. of the other driver, introducing a Mills MRA 12W and also perform the same Z with cement again but with // cement resistors or Kiwame 5W.
Devil is in the details and I surmise that's more important than some may claim if we are in the diminishing return of the few % of details that help to choose two sota drivers as the ones you just tested 🙂
Of course as said on horn was made for one of the model and it counts more, hence the little layout cheating to balance the sounding 😎
Btw thanks, for the subjective listening impression 🙂 . what was the mouth overture numbers of the horn ?
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I used 2x3.9 MOX resistors (matched pairs using multimeter). The resistor looks this way:
An externally hosted image should be here but it was not working when we last tested it.
I'm afraid I don't know horn specs. It looks like variation of Keele design. Here is what manufacturer says about it:
Product Detail - RCF
It was quieter at home (no kids), so I re-equalized the speakers for a more valid comparison. I better matched frequency response of driver combinations. RCF was much easier to equalize. Just 4 peak filters with Q of 1. Faital required 6 and of higher order.
Also, I listened to RCF drivers in this configuration to refresh my memories of their sound.
RCF have more weight in their sound. Images of musicians are more physical. Faital sounds softer and more weightless in comparison.
Both colour the sound. Faital colour less.
Guitar strumming sounds more spontaneous with RCF drivers. There is more "oh sh*" impression when a guitarist suddenly strums all the strings.
After re-equalizing both drivers to the same frequency response, metallic strings sound like metallic strings with Faital. Probably, I made a mistake equalizing the Faitals last night.
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I tried to make a recording to show difference in sound of drivers, but mics don't show the difference. Probably, it's just my psychology and they sound similarly in reality.
wow, quite a good spl curve 🙂
So resitor on the light side (I don't like the word bright that means nothing) and good as //...
It really means something for you is laking with the Faital with this horn combo. I surmise here a Mundorf Supreme will not bring you enough the clearness and subjective tonal balance it brings to be enough... At the opposit I will in your shoes really listen to the not Faital horn with two cements // to have an idea if it can tame little things... Not an expensive test to perform.
So resitor on the light side (I don't like the word bright that means nothing) and good as //...
It really means something for you is laking with the Faital with this horn combo. I surmise here a Mundorf Supreme will not bring you enough the clearness and subjective tonal balance it brings to be enough... At the opposit I will in your shoes really listen to the not Faital horn with two cements // to have an idea if it can tame little things... Not an expensive test to perform.
Did you try it without the resistor - or alternatevily with an L-PAD before the drivers? A single resistor in series slightly changes Q values, this might have an effect in your case..
No, haven't tried yet. Resistor is soldered inside the cabinet. I didn't want to disassemble it.
There is an auto-former between resistor and driver. So, from the driver side the source resistance is ~0. Afaik, this configuration shouldn't affect the frequency response.
I re-assembled the system with an L-PAD instead of autoformer. The frequency response is basically the same as before.
Step responses are almost identical as well.
Yet, L-PAD and autoformer sound differently. L-PAD is stiffer, while autoformer sounds softer. Was it expected?
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There is a difference of almost 2 dB in a range where the hearing is quite senistive. Why don't you expect to hear a difference ?
Regards
Charles
Regards
Charles
A resistor is a (much) more linear device so a more truthful signal transfer could be envisioned. But the sender and the receiver characteristics also com into play so one could see a situation where a transformer might create a more advantageous impedance situation for e.g. the sender. Many aspects come into play. If you don't need DC blocking or impedance adaption, a constant impedance resistor attenuation NW would be the most ideal electrical solution.
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I found the listening review from Chebum pretty cool. Sure the horn is an important part but the feeling on space and instruments are usefull for a first understanding.
Had someone the chance to listen both the 18thSounds 1460A and the Faital HF1440 ?
Maybe Chebum should atenuate with DSP the 1000 - 2000 hz area, story to see if the "too much" smooth for his personal taste could be atenuate as well ? 😕
See Eminem member input few posts above about an iso EQuing for the two drivers.
Had someone the chance to listen both the 18thSounds 1460A and the Faital HF1440 ?
Maybe Chebum should atenuate with DSP the 1000 - 2000 hz area, story to see if the "too much" smooth for his personal taste could be atenuate as well ? 😕
See Eminem member input few posts above about an iso EQuing for the two drivers.
Good point. I added a peak filter @ 2400Hz, -2 dB, Q3. It doesn't produce exactly the same frequency response as transformer, but close. This didn't change the impression of stiffer/harder sound with L-PAD compared to autoformer.
To make my opinion clear. The hardness isn't bad. It's just a characteristic of the sound. I had to express the sound heard using words. When comparing two configurations i heard that one sounded softer/more mellow than another one. This doesn't mean that one of them is better. It's just the way it sounds.
I believe someone will prefer resistors and others will like the auto-former more.
Thank you for the input on how resistors sound.
Yes, not easy to describe. Hard coulb be seen as a hardness, so not something positive. But sure, how to diferentiate it from, strong, consistent, solid, body, etc... I have the same problem with some words : light, clear, transparent, smooth, etc !
Thanks for the thanks. No problem for the cement resistor, they are the most forgiving imho.
Thanks for the thanks. No problem for the cement resistor, they are the most forgiving imho.
Although I'm a fan of Faital Pro driver and HF10AK is my favorite one-inch CD, but about HF1440 which is ~500 bucks I would still prefer to buy BMS 4592ND-Coax for the same price or even cheaper BMS 4590-Coax.
@dave123, chebum compared 1440 with ND950. The RCF can be purchased for 260Euro, it has a really nice midrange. RCF ART 945 MKIV has this driver as a 1.4"