blog on K15 - it might not be what you (think you) want - but with a good coax with lively mids, it will deliver the punch you want, excellent midrange sound, dynamic capability above a reflex - it would probably even work reasonably well with the Fane and no helper woofer but the Fane needs a lower Q motor ideally for vented cabinets. I've used high Q speakers in Ks - EV SP15B - Q>1 - nice midrange - much fun on Nick Cave's Murder Ballads", boomy in a sense but but fun , dried out old SK58 and University 12's whose Q >1.2 and fs >100 (!) in K12 = "no boom"
TWOGOODEARS - トゥーグッドイアーズ: A well-spent day: the making of a Karlson bass enclosure pair
TWOGOODEARS - トゥーグッドイアーズ: A well-spent day: the making of a Karlson bass enclosure pair
Last edited:
Thanks Freddy, if I'm not satisfied with the big 18's, I'll likely be looking to dual 12s or 15s next... and perhaps a k12 or k15 or other varient will be back in the mix 🙂
But I'm getting ahead of myself, there is much work to be done yet on the 18's, and need to probably build the Fanes at least in some sealed boxes to see how it all comes together, hopefully find this missing "punch" we all seek!
But I'm getting ahead of myself, there is much work to be done yet on the 18's, and need to probably build the Fanes at least in some sealed boxes to see how it all comes together, hopefully find this missing "punch" we all seek!
I think a bit of bracing, and maybe a little EQ via a media player, and you will have it with your BR + the Fane. I tend to plug K15 as it had that punch down pat back in 1951 (it didn't make its offical debut until 1952 as took some time to get the company rolling)
do you have freq response ?
most karlsons seem boosted 100-300hz if I remember .......................
most karlsons seem boosted 100-300hz if I remember .......................
'Lossy inductance'?! Where is this in HR's HELP file?
The PA460 sim is very misleading! Its super high inductance will cause a prominent mid-bass 'hump' just like he heard and realistically bass limited to ~80-100 W/1pi.
GM
to invoke the lossy inductance model, double click the "Le" - it will turn red to Le and there will be text below to indicate its "on" . Yeah - one can get a peak with high Le
hey GM - re: reported boominess, here's my sim from above on the 460BR - did I do something wrong on the input side ? it has no damping material.
hey 007 - check this thread Need Advice For One Pair of PA Speakers - Techtalk Speaker Building, Audio, Video Discussion Forum
Lossy Inductance is over my head, but I do get a peak instead of a relatively flat graph in winISD if I check the "simulate voice coil inductance" box. But it's only a broad 1.5 db peak centered on 120 hz. But, If I also check the "use transmission line model for port simulation" box, I get a double hump with a little 1/2 db peak at 45 hz and the peak at 120 hz. But wait, there's more.. If I check only the "use trans line model for port sim" box, I get a 1 db peak at 45 hz. Curious.
Nice of David to jump in re: HR, thank you sir. I really need to learn horn resp. at some point soon.
I'll be adding stuffing to the first cabinet soon, so we'll see what the (subjective) improvement is. As well as adding the 20 or 25 hz sub bass filter.
Thanks,
Jesse
Nice of David to jump in re: HR, thank you sir. I really need to learn horn resp. at some point soon.
I'll be adding stuffing to the first cabinet soon, so we'll see what the (subjective) improvement is. As well as adding the 20 or 25 hz sub bass filter.
Thanks,
Jesse
I may still try one of the pa460 drivers in a smaller sealed box too, just for comparison/kicks... About 4 cf volume looks about right. Not much low end at all though, 60 hz is f3, but at least its a gentle roll off.
Back to work on the ported boxes shortly, with adding bracing, damping, and paint. I'm still hopeful their sound will clean up with the bracing and damping, we'll see. I guess I could always add a higher frequency high pass filter too, maybe 30 or 35 hz 12db/oct would cut enough of the low boom.
Back to work on the ported boxes shortly, with adding bracing, damping, and paint. I'm still hopeful their sound will clean up with the bracing and damping, we'll see. I guess I could always add a higher frequency high pass filter too, maybe 30 or 35 hz 12db/oct would cut enough of the low boom.
Update:
Still working on the first ported box. Added windowed center brace, then lots of additional 2x3 bracing to break up all the panels.
Tried to do some "pre-painting" of the interior visible thru the port from outside so it would look less awful later, in case anyone wondered. 🙂
Still working on the first ported box. Added windowed center brace, then lots of additional 2x3 bracing to break up all the panels.
Tried to do some "pre-painting" of the interior visible thru the port from outside so it would look less awful later, in case anyone wondered. 🙂
Attachments
Last edited:
Smart move! I learned the hard way that I had to do that! Does your box design account fdor so much bracing though? You're losing a lot of airspace.
Thanks, hard to think ahead like that sometimes.. haha 🙂
This box is so big I don't think it's going to matter much, but no, I don't think I accounted for this much bracing. The response in winisd looked pretty similar from 9.85 cf down to 8 cf from what I recall, so hopefully the reduction doesn't color the sound too much. I went overboard on the bracing after thinking that maybe it was all the panels resonating in my preliminary test that was making it sound so boomy and muddy.
Jesse
Edit: this thing also has to weigh around 100 lbs now.. without front baffle and driver. Craziness!
This box is so big I don't think it's going to matter much, but no, I don't think I accounted for this much bracing. The response in winisd looked pretty similar from 9.85 cf down to 8 cf from what I recall, so hopefully the reduction doesn't color the sound too much. I went overboard on the bracing after thinking that maybe it was all the panels resonating in my preliminary test that was making it sound so boomy and muddy.
Jesse
Edit: this thing also has to weigh around 100 lbs now.. without front baffle and driver. Craziness!
Think I'm closer to an answer.
Feel in your chest punch is a combination of cone area, distance, and room.
I had same 3 ways with 15s in a normal living room that beat you up, but in a 30' x 60' you got better bass notes, more volume, but less chest hitting.
Horns count as a larger cone, or a 4ft2 mouth may equal 4ft2 of cone area.
But with a horn, you need to be a wavelength away to feel it.
So a 100hz mouth cutoff horn, you'd be 11' away.
(I had a w-bin with no bass close to it but slammed at end of the hallway).
Don't believe me, Dr Edgar mentioned the same thing about his bass horns.
Now, the frequency range is probably 100-300hz, but I'm still fuzzy on that.
I'm basing that on 2x15 crossed at 750hz beats you up, while same 2x15 crossed at 150hz to a 12" does not.
And a 3way with a 15" crossing at 250hz beat you up also.
Playing with my 10", i'd need 5 of them to equal the bass feeling of my double 15" now.
Feel in your chest punch is a combination of cone area, distance, and room.
I had same 3 ways with 15s in a normal living room that beat you up, but in a 30' x 60' you got better bass notes, more volume, but less chest hitting.
Horns count as a larger cone, or a 4ft2 mouth may equal 4ft2 of cone area.
But with a horn, you need to be a wavelength away to feel it.
So a 100hz mouth cutoff horn, you'd be 11' away.
(I had a w-bin with no bass close to it but slammed at end of the hallway).
Don't believe me, Dr Edgar mentioned the same thing about his bass horns.
Now, the frequency range is probably 100-300hz, but I'm still fuzzy on that.
I'm basing that on 2x15 crossed at 750hz beats you up, while same 2x15 crossed at 150hz to a 12" does not.
And a 3way with a 15" crossing at 250hz beat you up also.
Playing with my 10", i'd need 5 of them to equal the bass feeling of my double 15" now.
Last edited:
With more cone area, you can "feel it "at lower volumes, maybe similar to bass in a car.
I can't find it, but there was a comment on newer jbl double 15" flagship home speakers, maybe dd66000 or dd67000, "tactile bass, at low volumes".
I can't find it, but there was a comment on newer jbl double 15" flagship home speakers, maybe dd66000 or dd67000, "tactile bass, at low volumes".